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KILLFILE

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Epicurean Intelligentsia
Articles Posted: 382  Links Seeded: 10284
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Conservitism has Become As Bad as Communism

Seeded on Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:29 AM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: The American Conservative
politics, corruption, liberal, socialism, communism, corrupt, conservitism
Seeded by Killfile
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The reality is that today there are ever fewer conservatives alive who believe in true liberty as the old school believed in it. They have been ideologically compromised beyond repair. They have been so seduced by the Bush administration that they have become champions of an egregious war, ghastly bureaucracies like the Department of Homeland Security, and utterly unprincipled on the question of government growth.

Llewellyn H. Rockwell Jr of The American Conservative presents a fairly damning condemnation of American Conservatism as a corrupt, pseudo-religious, ideology now totally separated from its roots.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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  • Public Discussion (61)
Killfile

The entire article is really worth a read. I struggled for some time to find the right "high point" to include in the seed description but the whole article is really quite eloquent. I don't usually clip my own seeds, but I want to be able to find this one later.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:30 AM EDT
indecent

Very good seed, killfile - very well written. I clipped it as well.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:25 AM EDT
yarDeleted
Pamela Drew

Outstanding essay and one well worth clipping. I agree every word was worth saving but here's my favorite point.

You truly love liberty and hate the state and all its works? Good. Bail out of conservatism. Call yourself a libertarian, a liberal, an anarchist, an independent, a revolutionary, a Jeffersonian radical. Or make up your own name. But please, wake up and smell the massivo espresso: when it comes to mindless party loyalty, conservatism today is as bad as communism ever was.

  • 14 votes
Reply#4 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:50 PM EDT
Territan

It's common for each side to accuse the other of organized groupthink; it's worked both ways in the past, and it will probably continue to in the future.

Interestingly, this is the sort of argument where the side that argues with the more unified front has the greatest chance of losing.

  • 4 votes
#4.1 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:10 PM EDT
Rob_NC

..and also is more likely to eat anyone that might think differently than them...mmm Joe....

  • 1 vote
#4.2 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:55 AM EDT
Reply
The OttO Show

So we'll be seeing a flurry of Newsvine regulars who demand that we stop posting opinions that generalize and denigrate our political views, right? Or does this just apply to those with which we disagree (i.e. criticisms of liberals).

Just wondering - I won't do that myself, so...

  • 6 votes
Reply#5 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:05 PM EDT
Killfile

I think this is noteworthy because it neither generalizes nor denigrates the position of Conservatism. Rather it argues that the movement has been betrayed by and corrupted by those more interested with the implementation of policy and the acquisition of power than in the preservation of Liberty and the limitation of government.

  • 17 votes
#5.1 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:03 PM EDT
Oluseye

Beyond that; it is also the fact that the movement and the appelation it adopted are in contradiction of what they claim to be. US Conservatives are NOT conservative, by definition.

OttoShow; You can question anything you like, just don't alter people's true views and argue against what you wrongly claim that their views are.

  • 9 votes
#5.2 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:12 PM EDT
The OttO Show

OttoShow; You can question anything you like, just don't alter people's true views and argue against what you wrongly claim that their views are.

Back atcha:

Beyond that; it is also the fact that the movement and the appelation it adopted are in contradiction of what they claim to be. US Conservatives are NOT conservative, by definition.

Does this represent some kind of illness? You tell me not to do the very thing you just did in this post. But when I say "liberals are x, y and z" it deserves your criticism because you think it's wrong. When you say something about conservatives, it's what...intelligent insight?

At least have the integrity to conduct yourself by the standards you want me to act by.

  • 1 vote
#5.3 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:58 PM EDT
Killfile

Otto -- I think what he's getting at is that US Social Conservatives really aren't, by definition, Conservative. At least, not in the sense that Conservative means smaller, less intrusive government or fiscal restraint.

The Bush Administration is borrowing money hand over fist and is working very hard to expand governmental authority into lots of areas where none previously existed -- mostly on moral issues.

How is that Conservative?

Really -- we need a different word for this.

  • 13 votes
#5.4 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:36 PM EDT
The OttO Show

Well, as a smaller government conservative whose been influenced by other small government conservatives, I disagree. If you're refering to Republicans, then I could be more apt to agree, though I don't see this assault on moral issues which has never been the governments interests in the past. Perhaps you could give me some examples.

What I was responding to was Oluseye's repeated complaints about my generalizations of liberals which is followed by his generalization of conservatives. Where is Brian Ford and the others who go after the messenger instead of the message?

But I applaud you on presenting an interesting topic.

    #5.5 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:44 PM EDT
    Killfile

    If you're refering to Republicans, then I could be more apt to agree

    I am and my language failed me there. Let me try again.

    Many members of the Republican Party who want to do things like ban Gay Marriage at the National level aren't "Conservatives" in the traditional sense, even though they self identify as such. A Constitutional Amendment against Gay Marriage isn't Conservative because it expands the powers of the Federal Government (in this case to regulate Marriage - something left to the States) and constrains personal liberties.

    The Republican Party has gone quite a long way towards redefining "Conservative" and more specifically "Social Conservative" to mean "Christian."

    • 13 votes
    #5.6 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:54 PM EDT
    Daniel A. HalloDeleted
    ozroan

    We've had something similar happening in Australia (where the conservatives are actually called THE LIBERAL PARTY - smell the irony...).

    Prime Minister John Howard has been accused of hijacking the party for his own policy agenda, and it has gradually become more and more staunch right-wing under his 10 Prime-Minister-ship. At one stage at our last federal election, long serving financial members of the Liberal Party in his own seat decided to protest against him, complaining about the direction he's taken "their" party and threatening to unseat him.

    A good read on this phenomenon in Australia is Margot Kingston's "Not Happy , John".

    • 4 votes
    #5.8 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:47 PM EDT
    Reply
    Oluseye

    I have been saying this for a long time. "Conservative" as a tag attached to Republicans who want to bomb the world to shape, who believe in radical change, is a misnomer. There is no political philosophy more lacking in internal consistency and true meaning than American Conservatism.

    It is a movement that worships power first above all things and then uses all kinds of tactics to dress this. It is a movement heading very loudly in the wrong direction but constantly reconstructing the roads to make the direction correct.

    I hear a lot of "Conservatives" ask why the left is so "angry". The Conservatives have shredded every rule that anyone ever held sacred and there are just too many men for whom principles have come to mean no more than loyalty to one's position.

    • 19 votes
    Reply#6 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:09 PM EDT
    Daniel A. HalloDeleted
    Reply
    Jonathan D. Miller

    This is sadly the case it seems. I consider myself a conservative person (the old school way that is.) I believe in small government that serves the people and not its own ends. I believe in freedom and liberty and the equal rights of every citizen, regardless of race, age, gender, religion or sexual orientation. As a Christian I may not agree with others religion or sexual practices, but I respect them as individuals and respect their American right to live their lives that way. I'm also more of an isolationist, and while I do believe we need to be involved in world politics and keep tyranny at bay, I do not agree with our present situation of having a vast majority of our armed forces bogged down in foreign wars. The problem I see is that the balance of power in American government has shifted, away from the people and into the hands of the politicians. Everyone pretty much knows that our electorate process today is just a ritual (a going through the motions if you will) and that regardless of the political party in power its the same power hungry politicials who reign supreme. We need to reinstate a government of the people. Here are a few suggestions to fix the political problem:

    1. Repair the system of checks and balances that our forefathers devised. Currently the Executive branch holds far too much sway.

    2. All of the public service positions in Washington should have a base salary that is determined by someone other than themselves.

    3. Anyone wishing to enter the realm of politics and serve as a Congressman or Senator or President or VP etc.. must cut off all corporate ties for the duration of their service, thus preventing the conflict of interests that often arise from those situations.

    • 25 votes
    Reply#7 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:25 PM EDT
    winsomecowboy

    I would like to personally thank you for your suggestions towards a solution. It seems to be the most rare and hopeful thing to actually be able to approach what at times seem to be vast and entrenched dysfunction and corruption with constructive remedial solutions such as yours.
    Given, as you say, that elections today are just a ritual i can't help but worry that between now and a time where such changes are applicable, there must unfortunately be some kind of revolution.

    • 6 votes
    #7.1 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:53 PM EDT
    Jonathan D. Miller

    I too see revolution as the inevitable step towards these changes, but it will be a difficult revolution, because this time it means that we Americans will have to swallow our pride and that is admittedly a difficult thing to do.

    Thank you for your kind words winsomecowboy, I just felt that I needed to state that not all conservatives are drones, and not all of them agree with the way our nation is being run, or what is going on in the world. Believe it or not, some of us do think for ourselves. I think that at times like this and with the technology like newsvine at our disposal we need to be honest with each other, stop pointing fingers and calling each other names and focus on creating a sustainable solution for the future.

    • 2 votes
    #7.2 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:15 AM EDT
    Or So I Have Read

    Your definition of a conservative doesn't sound that different from my definition of a moderate. It's heartwarming to be reminded that not every conservative is a "values conservative". I don't want to impose my values on anyone, I don't want the govt. in the values business.

    I'd probably be as likely to vote Republican as Democrat if it didn't involve further devolution into the Christian States of America.

    Good comments, Jonathan.

    • 1 vote
    #7.3 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:09 AM EDT
    Jonathan D. Miller

    I think you hit on an excellent point. The government should not be in the values business. I am a strict proponent of the separation of church and state. I don't have a problem with the 10 Commandments in court houses because it can and should be viewed as a historical influence of our legal system, but I also don't have a problem with them not being in the courts. If I really wanted, I could have a nice 10 commandment plackard hanging on a wall in my home, like my parents do. I also have no problem with kids praying in school, wearing faith related messages on their clothes or even having bible studies (or Quran studies or whatever) and even having teachers participate if they felt lead too. So long as no individual is obligated by the school to participate in such activities, and that such activities did not occur during class times. After all do our constitutional rights change when we arrive on public property?

    • 2 votes
    #7.4 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:40 AM EDT
    Reply
    akatsuki

    I am not a conservative- my beliefs are that corporate power is just as much of a threat as governmental power and they need to be balanced off one another, but I have always wondered why the so-called libertarians had not called the current administration on their behaviour which is egregious. All they do is complain a bit and never flex their political power.

    • 9 votes
    Reply#8 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:28 PM EDT
    Oluseye

    Good question!

    • 3 votes
    #8.1 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:46 PM EDT
    Reply
    Daniel A. HalloDeleted
    voodooDeleted
    Sarcophilus

    We have a similar phenomenon occuring in Australia: The conservative coalition (whose senior partner is ironically called the Liberal Party) have abandoned their founding principles and appear intent on overturning the rights and freedoms that have painstakingly been established over the last century or so.

    The rule of law, separation of church and state and the principle of small government has been replaced by a de facto ideology that resembles more the policies of the fascists than those of liberal democratic parties.

    While this is occurring they are in the process of purging their party of all but those with the same extemist intent.

    And all the while it is cloaked in the apparent respectability of 'conservatism'.

    What has occurred at the same time, however, is that all mainstream political parties have shifted to the right.

    The Australian Labor Party (which had its origins as a democratic socialist party) now espouses the policies that once would have had a home with the conservatives.

    • 5 votes
    Reply#11 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:36 PM EDT
    evano

    It's very much the same here, Sarcophilus. Our mainstream Democratic party is not very far in political distance from the pre-Reagan Republicans. In some ways, they're even more to the right. I cannot imagine the Democrats of today seeking to open up the Environmental Protection Agency, create a government-owned corporation like Amtrak, mandate nationwide speed limits in response to high gas prices, promise a quick end to the war, seek economic ties with our ideological enemies, and participate in international talks to reduce weapons. Yet these were all actions associated with the Republican Nixon Administration. Meanwhile, Bill Clinton, a member of the supposedly more "liberal" Democratic Party initiated and supported a near-complete rewrite of our welfare laws in a draconian bit of reform. So, any day now, I'm expecting us to start having winter in July, while you are shivering in December.

    • 5 votes
    #11.1 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:16 PM EDT
    Reply
    Leon K

    In many ways, today's conservatives are party men and women not unlike those we saw in totalitarian countries, people who spout the line and slay the enemy without a thought as to the principles involved. Yes, they hate the Left. But only because the Left is the "other."

    This is the best point that jumped out in my opinion.

    • 9 votes
    Reply#12 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:02 PM EDT
    Shadybird Johnson

    I couldn't agree more. The Republican party is borderline schizophrenic these days. I can remember a time in the early 90's where I actually supported the Republicans on many issues. I wrote an essay in High School about the 94 Republican Revolution being a positive thing for the country. Those days seem so long gone now. I cant believe the Republican party of today is the same party that took over in 94. Ideologically they're light years apart.

    • 11 votes
    Reply#13 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:42 PM EDT
    Jim Dent

    ......But their real heroes are talk-radio blabsters, television entertainers, and sexpot pundit quipsters. They have little intellectual curiosity at all.

    Can't seem to go a whole day anymore without running into an Ann Coulter reference.......

    I think Rockwell is dead on. The conservatives I know worry far more about "the party" than they do about anything else. Everything is spoon fed. No need to actually think for yourself, Rush or Ann or Bill will tell you everything you need to know. If they say it's so, then by God it is....
    Conservatives deride liberals in general and democrats specifically, calling them the "party of no ideas." What most of them fail to realize is that not marching in lockstep with the leaders and pundits doesn't automatically mean we're bereft of ideas, it just means that we don't act like a bunch of dittoheads, agreeing with everything and questioning nothing...

    Politics, religion, and corporate interests are a dangerous combination...... but, on the bright side.... nothing lasts forever. Pendulums reach their apex, and change directions. And I think we're almost at the zenith.....

    • 16 votes
    Reply#14 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:54 PM EDT
    himself

    Well said!

    • 1 vote
    #14.1 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:19 PM EDT
    Killfile

    And I think we're almost at the zenith.....

    There's exactly one word in that sentence that scares the bejeebers out of me. Guess which one it is.

    • 6 votes
    #14.2 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:39 PM EDT
    Zylphryx

    Oh come on. Zenith isn't scary. They made some pretty decent electronics back in the day. ;)

    Seriously though, almost counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, thermonuclear devices and $#!& fights. If it has almost hit it's zenith then it'll get worse before it gets better.

    • 2 votes
    #14.3 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:13 PM EDT
    Jim Dent

    If your like me Kilfile, it's the almost that keeps me up at night. Every time my Playboy shows up in the mail, I give a sigh of relief and mutter to myself.... "they haven't completely taken over yet.........."

    • 10 votes
    #14.4 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:28 PM EDT
    tschreck

    oh no.. just mentioning anything to do with sex and anne coulter makes me want chop off my own willy.

    i'd rather have sex with a man.... an ugly man.
    and im not gay.

    :-)

    great seed kill~

    • 7 votes
    #14.5 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:30 PM EDT
    Reply
    barkings

    There's a couple words that scare me in the post, astonishing left to sit as is all day:

    "Conservitism" in your title and repeated in your little additional blurb.

    "psudo"

    "sperated" I'll credit as typing skill.

    And somehow you expect me to take you seriously when you suggest elsewhere that you'll use smaller words when addressing me? Please.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#15 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:06 PM EDT
    Ross Graham

    I agree, barkings. The little things mean a lot. If care cannot be taken in headlines and writing of articles within a venue based upon writing ... where else is care not taken?

    • 1 vote
    #15.1 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:44 PM EDT
    Killfile

    To be fair, it wouldn't suck if the "seed newsvine" window had a spellchecker

    • 7 votes
    #15.2 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:22 AM EDT
    Leon K

    Killfile has addressed his problems with spelling in another seed.

    Just pay attention to the content and not the mechanics of his sentences.

    • 3 votes
    #15.3 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:31 AM EDT
    Ross Graham

    I'm all over the content, Leon. I'm the converted he's preaching to. And yea, Killfile, a spellchecker in the Seed Newsvine window is a dire need.

    • 2 votes
    #15.4 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:37 AM EDT
    Reply
    The Observer

    Do you protest? Have I misstated your own political views?

    Yep.

      Reply#16 - Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:21 PM EDT
      Noah BradleyDeleted
      Mike Rupert

      Great seed, Killfile.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#18 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:47 AM EDT
      StacyM

      Great seed, Killfile. This is something that's been bugging me for quite some time now, because there are elements of conservative thinking that I actually agree with, but never see them represented in Washington.

      It almost seems like a game. They hold on to those core "conservative values" during elections and use them to slam democrats, but then abandon them and do the complete opposite of what they promised.

      I think this is a big reason as to why the libertarian ideology is catching on like wildfire - it's not a perfect ideology, but it seems a lot closer to true conservative thinking than the Republican ideology.

      Not that democrats don't do this as well, I don't feel that the Democrats in Washington are representing liberals very well either, and they too are still trying to claim they reflect the values.

      I'd like to just weed out the whole damn congress.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#19 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:10 AM EDT
      Territan

      I'd like to just weed out the whole damn congress.

      So really, StacyM, you're advocating not so much weeding as defoliation. Not that I'm disagreeing, of course.

      • 5 votes
      #19.1 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:15 AM EDT
      miasma

      Agreed.

        #19.2 - Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:59 PM EDT
        Reply
        Catch22

        Have we heard this before? Comparing the rhetoric and spin of Micheal Barone with F. Chernov

        "Secular Transanational Professional" boogeyman is a lot like "Rootless Cosmopolitan"

        The Connecticut primary reveals that the center of gravity in the Democratic Party has moved . . . to the secular transnational professional class that was the dominant constituency in the 2004 presidential cycle.
        Michael Barone
        Wall Street Journal Op-Ed
        August 10, 2006

        Consisting in part of cringing before foreign things and servility before bourgeois culture, rootless cosmopolitanism produces special dangers, because cosmopolitanism is the ideological banner of militant international reaction, the ideal weapon in its hands for the struggle against socialism and democracy.
        F. Chernov
        Bolshevik Magazine Op-Ed
        March 1949

        Through most of the 20th century, American exceptionalism has been the creed of both of our major parties . . . Among voters, transnational attitudes were espoused by only a very few, in the odd corners of university faculty clubs, investment-banking firm dining rooms and the councils of shop floor socialist intellectuals.
        Michael Barone
        Wall Street Journal Op-Ed
        August 10, 2006

        National nihilism with its attitude towards the Great Russian people and the other peoples of our nation, time and again was linked in the minds of rootless cosmopolitans with bourgeois nationalism, which today is inseparably tied with the cosmopolitan ideology of the imperialist bourgeoisie.
        F. Chernov
        Bolshevik Magazine Op-Ed
        March 1949

        The professional class Democrats of today . . . feel free to imagine that America cannot be threatened by implacable enemies. They can vote to validate their lifestyle choices and their transnational attitudes.
        Michael Barone
        Wall Street Journal Op-Ed
        August 10, 2006

        National nihilism is a manifestation of the antipatriotic ideology of bourgeois cosmopolitanism . . . Comrade Stalin said: "National nihilism only injures the cause of socialism, acting as a tool for bourgeois nationalists."
        F. Chernov
        Bolshevik Magazine Op-Ed
        March 1949

        ______________________

        • 5 votes
        Reply#20 - Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:10 AM EDT
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