Texas Parent Wants Fahrenheit 451 Removed from Classroom

* Cha-chinnnnng * I'M RICH, @!$%#!!

In my teaching experience, I've never found a parent seeking to censor a book to have actually read the book they seek to censor.

Irony is the spice of life.

This was my first thought as well. I believe any of these forms [that he submitted] need to be included with some proof that they have read the book, before they will be considered. If you have not read the book then you cannot request to have it removed on any grounds; seems like a fair rule to me.

If you havn't read the book then there is no way you can have a reasonable opinion on the book.

He couldn't read the book--the big bad words were too much for him.

If you havn't read the book then there is no way you can have a reasonable opinion on the book.

The key modifier here is the word reasonable, after the news coming out of Texas this past week, the words reason and Texas or Texan shouldn't be used in the same sentience.

I don't know how anyone can take this guy seriously. He hasn't read the book. He can't comment on it if he hasn't read it.

That's like reviewing a movie without seeing it. Critiquing a meal without eating it. You cannot do that. You cannot do that. He hasn't read the book. I... don't understand how people like this are allowed to breathe.

It seems that those who want to ban certain books have rarely read them. It's the height of arrogance for the ill-informed to impose their views on anyone. This is nonsense and comes only from self-righteous bigots - but then empty cans make the most noise.

Ansab, you forget that we now have a lot of new members, many unfamiliar with the art of satire.

It's probably best that we whip them into shape now rather than later, Zaki.

*gets whip and chains*

*realizes most people will think this is kinky*

As a new member, I can say that I was completely unaware that Ansab was using the art of satire. Also, I'm unaware of what satire is.

[Meta-satire?]

a meta satirist, Colbertizm.

New-comers must learn to hide for fear of the wrath of Ansab's satire.

Better still - why don't WE just get rid of Texas?

Hey, hey...there are some of us here in Texas that don't cowtow to fundamentalism. So, leave Texas alone.

However, perhaps we could buy a country somewhere, where all these folks who want to ban books, language and ethnic diversity could be shipped. They would love it there, and we would love it here without them. Hmmm...of course, Texas could become a pretty lonely place without them... ;-)

How about Iran as a possible shipping destination? ;-)

Better still - why don't WE just get rid of Texas?

So long as we can keep Molly Ivins, the South by Southwest festival, and the city of Austin, I'm down.

Just kidding, Texas.

Don't shoot me.

Would you prefer electrocution?

some of us here in Texas that don't cowtow to fundamentalism

This has nothing to do with fundamentalism, rather ignorance and idiocy.

How about Iran as a possible shipping destination? ;-)

That's actually a very appropriate suggestion, as so much of this kind of thinking is exactly what the most fundamentalist form of Islam wants. And, oddly enough, its just want the most fundamentalist forms of Christianity wants, too. If they could iron out a few doctrinal differences, they'd get along pretty well. They both want a rigidly puritanical environment with enforced religious orthodoxy and women turned into virtual ghosts.

We can't get rid of Texas. That's where ID Software is!

We do have armadillos here in Kansas now. They can have them back if they want.

some of us here in Texas that don't cowtow to fundamentalism

Shouldn't that be steertow?

*cough cough* excuse me but I don't think you want to kick us out just yet. We're the best line of defence against any southern invasion... we also all have guns. Fully warned.

Whoa, this is the type of girl who will grow up, marry and then call the doctor wondering why she hasn't had a baby yet. Naive.

Did you see the pic of her. So sad. As a survivor of child abuse, I'd say she's a likely candidate.

"Daddy, this ole nasty book has some bad ole words in it. You ain't gonna make me read that awful ole book now, are ya daddy? Cuz yer little girl here just don't wanna let the natsy ole devil in my heart. Daddy, do something fer your little angel."

"My little girl ain't gonna read this book with all that God damn profanity in it."

F/911 was a movie, not a book.

F/911 was a movie, not a book.

Given that the parent did not read the book, he probably had no idea. It's just another f-book with some numbers at the end, they must be the same, no?

The book is 460 degrees less offensive than the movie.

I also don't think she brought the movie home and showed him dirty words in it, and that he was sufficiently confused to bring the case to the school about a book that hasn't been written.

And F9/11 isn't required reading material for high schoolers, though if it were a book, it sure as hell couldn't hurt.

I know Daniel

my comment was meant to be a joke... :)

You know, I'm trying to remember any dirty language in Fahrenheit 451, and I can't for the life of me even recall something remotely obscene.

I bet she just didn't want to read it so she told her dad there was dirty words in it so she wouldn't have to.

If the "offensive" content is comprised entirely of the words referred to below, I'm gonna cry. From Wikipedia entry "Fahrenheit 451":

One particularly ironic circumstance is that, unbeknownst to Bradbury, his publisher released a censored edition in 1967 that eliminated the words "damn" and "hell" for distribution to schools. Later editions with all words restored include a "Coda" from the author describing this event and further thoughts on censorship and "well-meaning" revisionism.

Another story about Texas, backwards Texas, does any one have the report that shows where each state ranks in Education?

An educated person would try the census bureau, or perhaps Google. ;)

Link to ranking list is here. Overall Texas is mid-pack. That's the scary part.

I think to assume this kind of attitude is limited to Texas, or just Southern states, would be incorrect.

True, we can't leave out Alaska like that.

If they can't find a book that uses clean words, they shouldn't have a book at all.

Oops, they need to take away the Bible...

And the health and biology books, what with all the penis this and vagina that.

grey: I took it that it was the daughter, Diana, who said that they shouldn't have a book at all. As for home schooling, I'm not going to argue that this is a reason for a lot of home schooling, but I also know a lot of home schooled kids who got a solid, well rounded education and who read plenty of challenging material (swearing, death, and sex included). It just comes down to the parents. Even if the daughter said that, I do believe what you are saying about the father is likely to be most accurate.

I would like to home school my children but for the completely opposite reason. I think schools are too conservative, too much like prisons. I don't think ultra fanatical religious people are the only home schoolers. I don't want my children indoctrinated to live in a society that bans books.

Jason, it looks like you're absolutely correct. I guess my brain parsed the appearance of the father's name right after the quote as an indication that he was doing the speaking there, but he clearly wasn't. That fact doesn't really change my thinking here, though. If anything, it's more frightening that the (apparently brainwashed) daughter would be thinking that way.

And just to take up the homeschooling conversation a little more: The thing that really worries me on behalf of the homeschooled is the loss of social development inherent in that sort of education. The social aspects of school are, if you ask me, at least as important as the actual academics. I think educators should appreciate that more than they do, and parents should as well.

The thing that really worries me on behalf of the homeschooled is the loss of social development inherent in that sort of education. The social aspects of school are, if you ask me, at least as important as the actual academics. I think educators should appreciate that more than they do, and parents should as well.

This is often the first concern of people. But your concern is misplaced. Just Google "homeschool socialization" to find that study after study shows the opposite. Public schools are a HORRIBLE place where we allow are children to be abused physically and emotionally. I removed my children from the public education system not long after Columbine happened, while we were living about 40 miles from Denver. Socialization, sadly enough, WAS the reason I finally made the leap, not the total lack of REAL education. My kids were already being tormented, with my eldest daughter coming home in tears day after day.

Not long after Columbine the FBI released a list of ten characteristics of students likely to be a danger to society. I can't find it via Google. . there was so much backlash about it that there are just too many results. These "characteristics" included: above average intelligence,wears black, plays violent video games, has unsupervised access to the Internet, etc, etc. Well, my kids hit about 7 out of 10 of those characteristics. Rather than watch my bright kids be tormented more, I took them out.

Best thing I ever did. No long did I have to hear about people calling them names and telling them they were going to hell. No more sneaky physical attacks that teacher told them to "get over". Now they were home with me, socializing with my weirdo gamer friends. They learned to be accepted by adults as equals and not oppressed and humiliated by teachers who needed to maintain "discipline" that included smacking down children who corrected their mistakes. (Gods, there was one science teacher who, WHILE I WAS THERE, called the class STUPID because one of them knew Pompeii was a volcano.)

Thanks to be treated as adults, my 20 something BEHAVE as adults and have since their teens. The only regret I have is EVER letting my children go to public school.

I went to public school and have no regrets, nor did I ever find them to be a horrible place. I'm glad to see alternatives work out for some, but I for one wouldn't have traded it for the world.

Bazards - I have just the opposite sentiment. I was in public school through 4th grade, then homeschooled for 5th-7th, then went back into public school for 8th grade through college. I don't regret a day of it. Sure, I missed out on some of the socialization inherent in being in a public school, but looking back I'm glad my parents made that decision. I can't imagine where I'd be now if it weren't for those three years.

I went to public school and have no regrets, nor did I ever find them to be a horrible place. I'm glad to see alternatives work out for some, but I for one wouldn't have traded it for the world.

Oh, it worked for me as well. But the alternative was being at home where I was berated, beaten and raped. :)

From my perspective of going to public school for the whole run, the socialization inherent in public schools is not always a good thing.

I would send a child to public school, mostly so they can learn how to cope with the moronic and the flagrantly abusive @!$%#s of the world. Though sending them to a self defense class would work just as well, I suppose.

I would send a child to public school, mostly so they can learn how to cope with the moronic and the flagrantly abusive @!$%#s of the world. Though sending them to a self defense class would work just as well, I suppose.

And your kid would be the one suspended. I can give you dozen of examples, but this one stands out for some reason at this moment. My youngest son, around 4th grade at the time, had a blue and gold satin jacket from the local community college, Pikes Peak Community College. The letters on it were PPCC. One of the 1st graders would chase him around screaming Pee-Pee Caa-Caa. He tried going to the teacher on duty. He was told he just needed to ignore the younger child. Finally one day, when the younger kid got right in his face screaming at him, he pushed him away. He was suspended for a week.

After a week, he went back, prepared to try to ignore the kid. But after a couple of days of listening to it, he chanted back at the kid "Piss Piss, @!$%# @!$%#". He was suspended again. Because, even though the words mean the IDENTICAL things, his were "dirty". And the little git never was made to behave.

They believe in their Constitutional right to have a good day. They believe in this of course, because they've never actually read the Constitution.

Someone did write such a book. Many of us read it in the first grade. I remember one poignant section that goes something like this:

See Spot!
See Spot run?
Run, Spot, run!

*sniff*...it almost brings tears to my eyes.

There's a reason why Laura Bush listed Hop on Pop as one of her favorite books. She has to appeal to her illiterate base, y'know...

QACoach: Spot was a traitor to his country. He cut and ran instead of staying the course, and his name is forever damned as a result of his betrayal.

Oh, no no no! This book that I'm envisioning will have a sub-high-school reading level (for our sub-par high-school students), but it won't be so simple or straightforward.

It won't have anything offensive in it; any references to anything unsavory will be oblique and the characters won't even want to talk about them because they're "unpleasant." And it will use an abundance of buzzwords like "freedom" and "family values."

Ultimately, though, the theme underlying it will be anathema to any thinking moral person. For example, any reference to "family values" will be used to perfume deceptively innocent instances of hate, prejudice, and greed. The "freedom" will be freedom for just a few; anyone deemed unworthy (or not rich enough) would get the proverbial jackboot-on-the-head. Heartless oppression will be couched lovingly as compassionate separation.

It would be a book of seeming virtue and nobility, a pleasant style used to mask truly ugly substance. And anyone who reads it and says that it's a "decent" book or who likes the suggestions it makes, we can assume to be either illiterate or an @!$%#.

For some reason, as I write this, I can't stop thinking about Norman Spinrad's book The Iron Dream...

I just want to clear something up, did spot chase the red wagon? Was there a Betty in this story?
If so we had the same first book in NZ. Who wrote that book? Talk about made for life!
An afternoons writing at most.

I wonder if the book, which is aimed at like 4 year olds, "Everybody Poops" would offend this guy.

Jason...How can you say such things:

Spot was a traitor to his country. He cut and ran instead of staying the course

I personally know that Spot was a veteran and recieved a medal. That's just like all you Neo-Cats to come down on dogs!!

I am a member of Swift-Cat Veterans for Truth, and I am here to say that I served with Spot. He repeatedly petitioned for medals after every mission just so he could cut his tour short. He turned tail and ran long before he could have earned any medal. Now he wants to the same all over again. He couldn't be trusted then, and he can't be trusted now. He's no Old Yeller, just yellow.

This message paid for by Swift-Cat Veterans for Truth and does not endorse any candidate.

Alright...enough is enough!

I have it on good authority that Rin-Tin-Tin and Rex the Wonder Dog, both highly decorated veterans, are coming out in support of Spot.

Even Felix is supporting Spot!

I have also heard that Spot will be issuing a statement to national media telling the "Swift Cat Vets" that he will not be anyone's scratching post.

Also be sure to read Spot's new autobiography, "Spot: These Colors Don't Run, but Spot Does"

You guys have lightened my day, thanks, thats some quality material. :)

Yeah, why stop at just banning this book? I think we may as well just ban all the books.

And just to remove the temptation, we should probably burn them all. Ya know... to be safe.

We should probably burn the authors too, better safe than sorry.

Vote for Kinky for Governor

My grandson is 12 and tomorrow (the 5th) is his last day of suspension from the school bus because he,..er..cussed on the bus. So in North Carolina some kids are still cussin'... Wait you say it may just be my grandson thats doing all the cussin'? Damn!

Internet gambling - ILLEGAL

Torture - LEGAL

Pete, you just gave me an idea for the next great reality show: Torture Poker!

Only if its played strictly by Congresspeople.

God Bless America, the land where books are bad but MTV and Paris Hiltion are a-ok!

I am sure that this man and his daughter would be offended by MTV and Paris Hilton as well. This guy and his daughter are not America and neither is MTV or Paris Hilton, we just happen to let all four of those things co-exist here.