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It's time to stomp out atheists in America. The majority of Americans would love to see atheists kicked out of America. If you don't believe in God, then get out of this country.
The United States is based on having freedom of religion, speech, etc., which means you can believe in God any way you want (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.), but you must believe.
"It's time to stomp out atheists in America... I don't recall freedom of religion meaning no religion."
Seeded on Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:37 PM EST
Article Source: peninsulaclarion.com- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (101)
This is excerpted from an editorial that ran in the Peninsula Clarion back in late January. It's wing-nut in the extreme but has been circulating on a few social news sites as a scanned image. I tracked down the original to verify that it really does say what everyone claims it says.
And it does.
- 22 votes
Solution to "really irritating registration": Bugmenot.com and the Bugmenot Firefox extension.
- 6 votes
I bet people like that would be horrified to learn that there are over 40,000,000 Atheists/Agnostics in the United States, and that it is the fastest growing segment over the past decade -- mainly at a staggering cost to Christianity.
- 32 votes
Where do you get that figure Paul? It sure is encouraging.
- 7 votes
that it is the fastest growing segment over the past decade
During which time the crime rate was also decreasing (Based on FBI Uniform Crime Statistics). I'm not saying they are related, but certainly it can't be as the woman says, atheists cause crime. LOL
- 17 votes
I'm an atheists myself, and that figure is both right and wrong. People who describe themselves as non-religious far outnumber self described atheists....
- 7 votes
Where do you get that figure Paul? It sure is encouraging.
Because Census gatherers are forbidding from inquiring about faith (which I think is silly) they often partner with other organizations to gather the data anyway. You can see my source here, and an article I wrote about it back in January.
What you end up with if you trust this (fyi Nielsen I think samples less than 1/5th that many people) is the overall Christian faith losing 20 million followers in the decade ending 2001. Non-religion/Atheist/Agnostic gained almost 18 million in the same period. The non-believers should have overtaken Baptists by now to reign in the second largest "denomination" behind Catholics.
There are nearly 1 billion Atheists/Agnostics in the world overall, so it seems the U.S. has some catching up to do.
- 8 votes
Paul: While you have the gist of the information and the general trends correct, you seem to have expanded the statistics to the entire population to reach your figure of 40 million no religion/atheist/agnostics when the study was very specific in that it only referenced adults. While it may be reasonable to assume that atheists would raise atheist children, there is no indication in the study of presence or numbers of children among different groups, so it is not correct to make those kinds of extrapolations. The ARIS results indicated an increase from 14 million non-religion adults in a related 1990 survey to 29 million in 2001, the largest increase among any group both in absolute numbers and in percentage of the population, which grew from 8% in 1990 to 14% in 2001. (The table in Wikipedia says 15% and does not match the official results of 14.1% stated at the survey source.) Extrapolating this survey to today is tricky, too, since this survey was conducted before the events of 9/11. It is not definite that there was any effect on religious membership in the aftermath of the attacks, but, based on the claimed magnitude of the effects on the culture, I would hesitate to draw a straight line.
Still, thanks for bringing up this important data. I was just reading the survey this morning while writing another comment on a different thread and I was going to mention it here until I noticed you had already.
- 6 votes
Paul: While you have the gist of the information and the general trends correct, you seem to have expanded the statistics to the entire population to reach your figure of 40 million no religion/atheist/agnostics when the study was very specific in that it only referenced adults.
Whoops. For some reason that never crossed my mind. Still though, the percentages should still apply to all groups equally when you reconsider age.
- 2 votes
I think it's incredibly silly. The Census is voluntary, you don't have to participate if you don't want to. I see no harm in gathering that statistic.
- 2 votes
I see no harm in gathering that statistic.
And a lot that could be gained. LOL Imagine if we could correlate certain types of "religion" with societal dysfunction and violence?
- 1 vote
A quick look through Title 13 of the US Code (which is the statutory authority for the Census Bureau) shows no restriction on collecting religious affiliation information. However, part of the mission of the Bureau is collecting data to be used for Federal programs. Since Federal programs are not going to have any criteria based on religious affiliation, the Bureau has no need to collect it. It is a shame because it is interesting to know info like that, but the reasoning is sound. There's also no restriction on a private group conducting that kind of survey, as was done with the NRIS in 1990 and ARIS in 2001.
- 1 vote
Public Law 94-521 prohibits us from asking a question on religious affiliation on a mandatory basis; therefore, the Bureau of the Census is not the source for information on religion.
- 2 votes
Paul: I found that page too, which is what eventually led me to Title 13, which I mentioned above. Searching on Google got me to the announcement by President Ford when he signed the bill into law, and his statement reflects that the purpose for the bill was the establishment of a new mid-decade census to provide more timely information, but not to be used for legislative apportionment. The Library of Congress Thomas database doesn't have the full text of laws going back to 1976 (the 94th Congress) but it does have the Congressional Research Service summary of Public Law 94-521. Now, I'm not disputing that the Census Bureau knows its own business, but, a search of the code finds only a couple of mentions of "religion" or similar words, in Section 102, titled "Religion" which says:
The Secretary may collect decennially statistics relating to religious bodies.
and in Section 221, titled "Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers" which provides in subsection (c)
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.
and Section 225, titled, "Applicability of penal provisions in certain cases" which says in subsection (d)
(d) Where the doctrine, teaching, or discipline of any religious denomination or church prohibits the disclosure of information relative to membership, a refusal, in such circumstances, to furnish such information shall not be an offense under this chapter.
So... I don't know about you, but it looks to me like they can ask every 10 years, but they can't compel someone to answer and they can't throw someone in jail whose religion says they can't admit to being a member of that religion. It seems to me like the Census Bureau is really just saying, "Man, it's too much of a hassle, so let's just not ask." :)
- 1 vote
Sure - lots of crazies write crazy letters -- at least this one isn't a member of congress - lol
- 31 votes
#2 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:55 PM ESTTrue enough. This has gotten a fair amount of national play though, so I thought Newsvine might benefit from being able to see that the print media are just as likely to print the sort of ill-considered rantings we try so hard to avoid here.
- 12 votes
killfile - to be clear - I wasn't criticizing u seeding this
i honestly feared it was some presidential candidate or other politician lol
- 11 votes
chill, that's exactly what I thought when I read the headline:
"Now what politician is opening up his crap-filled mouth aga-... What? It's just an ordinary crazy lady? Praise God."
Kind of a sad state of affairs when our brains automatically default to assuming "must be a politician."
- 6 votes
The whole "religion in politics" things is going to get very interesting in 08 with the media taking an interest in the Mormon's "unusual" belief system as Mitt Romney has entered the race. As an atheist, I truly roll-on-the-ground-laughing when one whacked-out religion makes fun of some other equally whacked-out religion's belief system. This should be fun.
LOL "atheists are the reason crime is so rampant" Sure, lady.
- 16 votes
#3 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:09 PM ESTIf everyone prayed, we would all win mad lotto money, thereby removing the need to rob banks, resulting in pimped out cribs and rimmed out Bentleys. Me not having to steal 20"s for my baby's momma = less crime + extreme phatness.
less crime + extreme phatness = Praise God.
God damned atheists ruining it all. GTFO, you ain't gettin my lotto
- 15 votes
Would it suit her if we brought back school prayer and it was to the Moon on Monday, Ptah on Ptuesday, Quetzal on Wednesday (goes with Mexican food Wednesdays, go figure), Thor on Thursday, and Jesus (fish) on Friday? Saturn on Saturday and the Sun (Ra, Aten, whomever) on Sunday would be only for those with detention. Oy vay.
Gods, people like Alice Shannon make me ashamed of my species. :#|
- 17 votes
#5 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:03 PM ESTWhat, no Odin? By taking your life my spot will be secure in Valhalla!
- 7 votes
What, no Odin? By taking your life my spot will be secure in Valhalla!
Ah, he included Thor. Odin could give a damn, I'm sure. LOL
- 2 votes
Odin has Wednesday named after him in Scandinavia (Danish: 'onsdag', old norse/viking: 'Óðinsdagr'). So he'll have to strike a deal with Quetzal. I guess the word 'Wednesday' is linked to Odin too because some time some people called him 'Wotan'?
Tuesday is named after Tyr, the god of war (Danish: tirsdag, , old norse/viking: Týsdagr). Friday is named after Odin's wife, Frigg.
- 1 vote
Friday is named after Odin's wife, Frigg.
Well, depends on who you talk to. I went to Pantheacon this weekend. I think most pagans I know consider Friday to be Freya's day, since it was also considered Venus's day. (One presenter talked about Friday the 13th being "evil" because it was the day of the Goddess and the number 13 is the number of lunar cycles in the annual solar cycle.)
Now Freya is one goddess you don't want to piss off! Any woman who can get 8 cats to cooperate is way too powerful.
- 3 votes
Quetzal on Wednesday (goes with Mexican food Wednesdays, go figure),
I eat Mexican food on Wednesday's, too! :)
- 3 votes
It's not an editorial though Killfile - it clearly states that it's a reader's opinion. I like it though, since it oozes ignorance from almost every sentence. We need to see more examples of this kind of writing since they expose the proponents for what they are.
- 12 votes
#6 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:05 PM EST*sigh*
Not a day goes by that I don't see something that makes me question whether or not our species will survive ...
- 16 votes
#7 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:15 PM ESTNot a day goes by that I don't see something that makes me question whether or not our species will survive ...
or should?
- 12 votes
Gwenny you totally remind me of The Outer Limits with your line there. You know, how at the end of the show it would always provide a moral of the story? They were always great when it came to that.
Oh, and athiests are cool with me. My Grandfather said one thing that has stuck with me to this very day, do what you're going to do, you're going to anyway. If more people had this idea, we'd have a lot less intolerance in the world.
- 4 votes
As I've said many times before, I'm amazed that we've gotten this far. We are actually capable of living in groups (cities) of millions with minimal murder. Wow
- 1 vote
You have no imaginary friends. so you will be kicked out of the imaginary friends club.
- 7 votes
#8 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:47 PM ESTI want a new country. Jefferson even espoused freedom FROM religion.
The problem with requiring a religion is, obviously, that everyone will have a different idea of what the RIGHT religion is. All that does is create division and war. Personally, I want completely and entirely away from anybody who espouses religion. Keep it to yourself. Feel all self-righteous because you're going to heaven. Even better, kill yourself to get there faster.
- 7 votes
#9 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:56 PM ESTGood grief.... Now, including yours truly, we will have to throw the following people out of the country....
Lance Armstrong
Warren Buffett
Rodney Dangerfield
Bill Gates
Barry Manilow.... OK, I agree with this one... :-D
Ron Reagan Jr
Gene Roddenberry (dead)
Andy Rooney
Ted Williams
Steve Wozniak
Larry King
Ted Turner
Arthur C. Clarke
Isaac Asimov....
Also, one of my favorite authors, Mark Twain was skeptical of religion..
"Hey Alice... bite me!"
- 18 votes
#10 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:57 PM ESTI forgot Pat Tillman....
At Pat's memorial service, his brother Rich said "Pat isn't with God, He's f -- ing dead. He wasn't religious. So thank you for your thoughts, but he's f -- ing dead.''
- 19 votes
Asimov is dead as well.
Does this mean we will have to exume their bodies and ship them outside our borders?
- 9 votes
Does this mean we will have to exume their bodies and ship them outside our borders?
"And his will was not for light so he went unto the ground, but the Children knew of his indifference and shipped his ass to Mexico." - Blablabla 12:1
Hallelujah!
- 4 votes
"And his will was not for light so he went unto the ground, but the Children knew of his indifference and shipped his ass to Mexico." - Blablabla 12:1
That letter got tons of responses on their site.
Writer disagrees with letter
"As a Christian and a Catechumen in the Catholic Church, I am writing in response to a letter aimed at atheist printed Jan. 29."
Fear a relic from McCarthy era
"The letters regarding atheists and Muslims, found respectively in the Jan. 29 and 30 editions, show a frightening lack of knowledge as regards to our own country and its founding principles."
It's gotta be satire. Right?
"Is it, or is it not? Satire in this country these days is often hard to discern, and I found Alice Shannon's letter of Jan. 29, a vituperative religious diatribe attacking atheists, to be a case in point. It's level of vitriol was so off the chart that after I recovered from the shock and awe, I had to smile. It's gotta be satire, right?"
you can find more here.
So it is nice to see the wackos don't go unchallenged. They only go unchallenged, when you try to prevent them from speaking. Then they can spread this dribble in the darkness in private where there is no rebuttal. So we should encourage nonsense letters like this, so that these people's perverted views can be destroyed in a public forum. We should demand they expose their views publicly. To many people would rather we hide this excrement, rather than face it and fight it.
- 7 votes
#11 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:07 PM ESTnot sure what happened but i tried to post that in a more readable format.
anyone know why my new lines went away after my links?
I'll give newsvine all my earnings for a 30 second edit button.. all 26 cents of it.
- 5 votes
I decided to replace the word "Atheist" with "Religious Bigot" and some creative changes to see what the original letter would sound like. Hope you like it!!!
----------
"It's time to stomp out Religious Bigots in America. The majority of Americans would love to see Religious Bigots kicked out of America. If you don't believe in the First Amendment, then get out of this country!
The United States is based on having freedom of religion, speech, etc, which means you can believe in any religion or no religion, but it is your choice to do what you want.
Religious Bigots have caused the ruin of this great nation by proming bigotry, ignorance, intolerance, isolationism, xenophobia, and being able to practice what can only be called small minded.
I don't care if they have never committed a crime, Religious Bigots are the reason crime is rampant.
---
- 11 votes
#12 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:48 PM ESTkillfile - interesting but sad reflection on contemporary America.
Professor Richard's Dawkins in his outstanding book "The God Delusion" Bantam. London, 2006, p100) points to a 1998 study published in the prestigious journal Nature by Drs Larson and Witham and that estimated that 93% of the members of the prestigious US National Academy of Science do not believe in a personal God (we have a very distinguished member of the US National Academy of Science coming to stay at our home at the end of this week; I'll have to ask!) - as compared to over 90% of Americans believing in the supernatural.
The US has more Nobel Laureates than any other country (MIT alone boasts 62). Professor Dawkins further points out that "
The only website I could find that cliamed to list "Nobel Prize-winning Scientific christians" came up with six, out of a total of several hundred scientific Nobelists. Of these six it turned out that four were not Nobel Prize-winners at all; and at least one to my certain knowledge, is a non-believer who attends church for purely social reasons."
The trouble with this prevailing level of "delusion" coupled with effective exclusion of just about any "outed" atheist from politics (notwithstanding the scepticism of the great founding father Thomas Jefferson) is that America is ruled by the "officially delusional" and rejects crucial advice from its most outstanding scientists and scholars.
Thus the President of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) has just made a speech citing poverty, nuclear arms and global warming as things that acutelkt threaten humanity and which should be addressed - even suggesting that scientist should "tithe" 10% of their work-time dealing with such issues (seeded to Newsvine and no doubt largely ignored).
Similarly America's and the world's top medical epidemiologists at theWorld's top public health school (Bloomberg School of Public Health, boasts a recent Nobel Laureate) at the top Johns Hopkins University estimate (in the top medical journal The Lancet) 850,000 excess deaths in Occupied Iraq (updated figure for February 2007; 1 million if based on a Syria/Jordan mortality baseline comparison) - but this information is baldly dismissed and ignored by Religious Right political leaders like Bush and Blair, their confreres, and supporters.
- 4 votes
#14 - Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:06 PM ESTYeah, if you haven't noticed, all those high ranking scientists "don't have a personal God"....because they're smart and introspective. And scientists.
- 1 vote
Actually it was a joke (evidently not a very good one, but hey, you can't win 'em all)...
But:
I believe in a God/force and I have an I.Q of 180+.
Why?
And:
Are you saying that being smart and introspective is bad?
No, I believe introspection is necessary to achieve faith in whatever you believe (or don't).
- 2 votes
I have an I.Q of 180+. Not quite good enough to join Mensa
Mensa only requires 98th percentile, which is an IQ of 132 on Stanford-Binet.
- 3 votes
Also, not as an insult or anything, but where did you hear your IQ was above 180?
180 is basically off the scale....like literally. The scale doesn't go that high. You would need a non-standardized test to get that sort of score.
Scores are basically Gaussian with mean 100, and std deviation of 15. To get 6 std deviations off the mean you are talking like 1 in a 10 million (or smaller, I couldn't find a table actually saying 6, all I could find was 3 off which was 1 in 10,000). Going off the 1 in 10 million number, there are only like 30 people with that high of an IQ in the united states. When the numbers get that small the test really breaks down and doesn't mean anything.
ps. As an aside, I am not saying I put a lot of faith in an IQ score or anything like that.
- 2 votes
For those of us who have debated you Danielle we know how truly relative that word is.
the smarter we get in this country, the more atheists emerge. there's a reason for that. anyway, this article is a load of @!$%#.
- 7 votes
This article is more or less an example of the sort of vehemence and insanity that seems to infect the religious right in this country. I seeded it for exactly that reason. Voices of reason would be well advised to remember that this is what we're up against: people who make up their own facts and then judge others based upon them.
- 7 votes
the smarter we get in this country, the more atheists emerge.
Unfortunately, smart people believe weird things too. As Michael Shermer, editor of Skeptic magazine, puts it, "Smart people believe weird things because they are good at defending beliefs they came to by non-smart reasons."
- 1 vote
Richard Odessa - I'll thank you to keep your anti-semitic comments off of my column.
- 1 vote
Ah yes, because Judaism is a subset of atheism.
I guess "Get Smarter Here" applies more to some than others.
Odessa, for the sake of curiosity and troll-feeding, what are your beliefs?
Smarter you say or just more susceptible and increasingly more inundated with liberal garbage.
I guess you may call that anti-semetic as well.
Richard - You need stop trying to paint Liberalism as some sort of Jewish conspiracy. You're welcome to discuss and debate the problems with Liberalism to your heart's content, but I'm not going to let you depict Judaism as the progenitor of some sort of poisonous ideology that undermines America.
- 2 votes
Danielle, again I am not sure were you are drawing this connection. How do you hop from Liberalism is a subset of Judaism (and before the neo-con movement most Jewish thought in America was liberal in it's orientation) to neo-cons are neo-nazi's? You drive me crazy! Seriously, I know that I mess up typing from time to time and it is embarrassing but you really need to slow up a bit and think about what you writing before you press that 'POST COMMENT' button.
Killfile - Is it a conspiracy if it is out in the open?
- 2 votes
Is it a conspiracy if it is out in the open?
Okay ... *backs away slowly*
- 1 vote
Smarter you say or just more susceptible and increasingly more inundated with liberal garbage.
I guess you may call that anti-semetic as well.
Actually, that'd just be "demonstrating a lack of high education," not anti-semitic. You'll find that many do not automatically equate liberalism or things-I-don't-agree-with with a Jewish conspiracy. Shockingly, a large proportion of these people are not Jewish.
Is it a conspiracy if it is out in the open?
I understand your point. I, like you, can see it plain as day.
Liberalism and associated progressivist trash (unlike rigid right-wing nectar and ambrosia) are naturally and undeniably the result of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy.
I guess millions of Christians are just too stupid to see through the mind control powers of the Jewish hegemony. Damn.
But, I am unclear on how to rationally judge what is trash and what is ambrosia. Right now, I'm just going by gut feeling, and feeling the truth is never a good idea. How does one go about intelligently sifting the wheat from the chaff?
(Killfile, if you think I'm going too far, feel free to let me know)
- 3 votes
If I were to change my comment...lets say that I said George W. Bush and his gang that now occupy the White House are using manipulative tactics to get undermine democracy and forge a one world government under their command, this would get rave reviews in this completely Nutsvine. But say something you people here on Nutsvine disagree with and I am insane. I will debate this issue privately or in the open but I don't want to offend anyone because that isn't right.
"Demonstrating a lack of higher education" - Well it is a shame that I am wasting my money on a masters in International Relations because obviously I am waisting my time if I come to a different conclusion than you people. You could have saved me a bunch of money, if only I could have signed up for Newsvine sooner a learned that group think is the way for me!
The Goyim are most certainly less manipulative.
How do you separate the wheat from the chaff? Really not too hard. Just study more than one side of a topic and it becomes clear.
- 1 vote
Richard, I could honestly care less if you feel a political or ideological allegiance with the Conservative Right. There are numerous Newsviners who hold and defend those ideals and I respect them for it.
What you've done is spread anti-semitic propaganda, use racial slurs, and endorse an myth of a Jewish Conspiracy that honestly parallels that detailed in Der Ewige Jude. I'm more than prepared to discuss politics with you. What I'm not prepared to do is suffer your use of my column to spread racial hate speech.
- 7 votes
I just can't believe that it was published in the paper. With the lefty tilt in almost all media you would think it wouldn't see the light of day. However, it could be used to instigate the left...which it apparently has. I am not saying that I agree with author...just an observation.
- 1 vote
#17 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:09 AM ESTIt's clear to me that these so called Christians are becoming more evil.
#18 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:54 AM ESTI couldn't agree more! Becoming more evil! Did you hear about those 19 hijackers who were waving their bibles while flying planes into buildings! These people must be stopped!!! Allah help us!
- 1 vote
You're correct. It appears that fundamentalism of any kind replaces compassion with fanaticism.
- 1 vote
I love the currency argument... believe in God because its on our money!!
1. The Jesus I learned about in my upbringing kicked ass in the temples because of the money changers.
2. Go to the US Mint's website and you will see that the word "God" on our money is a relatively new phenomenon, and has been the subject of debate amongst our elected leaders. One rational leader posited that he did not want to "cheapen" the name of God by putting on money.
- 1 vote
#19 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:57 AM ESTYa know what's funny.
There will be more and more atheists as the years went on.
The thing is, we were here all along, but afraid to speak out.
@!$%#, even Evangelical Christians, Radical Fundamentalist Muslims, and Zionist Jews agree on one thing: "@!$%# the atheists"
Long after Greek philosophy, people stopped believing in the Greek Gods. It's only a matter of time before the world population stops believing in the world top 3 religions.
- 5 votes
#20 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:45 AM ESTYou are 100% right on, Zaki. I can imagine a day sometime in the next, oh, 400 or 500 years, when a college sophomore, looking to round out his general education requirements, signs up for Intro to American Mythology.
- 10 votes
Not only is God coming to fix everything, but God will also provide for the financial stability of the faithful.
Until recently, I never knew God's grand plan involved devaluing the US dollar.
- 3 votes
I'm a mootist.
The question of whether you believe in God/gods or you believe there is/are no God/gods is a question of creation. How did this universe get here? Who made it or how was it made?
For me, this is a moot point. I don't see how we tiny humans will ever be able to understand the entirety of the universe or why it's here. I don't believe there is a God and I don't believe there is no God. Being absolute either way requires a ton of hubris. Don't believe everything you think.
How the universe came to be is a moot point. It's here, and it's pretty fracking amazing.
So while we're all here, let's at least not be jerks to each other.
So I'm an antijerkian mootist.
- 1 vote
#21 - Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:45 PM ESTI'm a mootist.
I thought it was Hindus who worship cows.
:)
- 5 votes
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