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(Video) Giuliani mocks radio caller, later finds out man has Parkinson's

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Crooks and Liars quotes the following from the Washington Post - the link goes to them though, because they have the video too.

"When "Giuliani Time" gives a glimpse of this Giuliani, it's mesmerizing. So, the smiling mayor fields a phone call during his weekly radio show. The caller is angry about city cuts to food stamps and Medicare aid for the disabled. Hizzoner is a pit bull to the chase.
"Hey, John," Giuliani tells his caller, "what kind of hole are you in? There's something that's really wrong with you. . . . We'll send you psychiatric help because you really need it."

As it happens, the caller, John Hynes, needs real help. A disabled lawyer, he suffers from Parkinson's disease, and he's had his benefits cut off and he's running out of medicine.

Nothing chills the blood so thoroughly as the sight of a powerful man turned gleeful bully."

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9.9
{"commentId":552622,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

Certainly Giuliani didn't have the benefit of seeing this man -- but isn't that the point? What kind of mentality does it take to assume that a person asking you "why did you hurt me" is somehow mentally incompetent instead of... hurt?

{"commentId":552622,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
  • 9 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:31 AM EST
{"commentId":553655,"authorDomain":"incredulous"}

What kind of mentality does it take to assume that a person asking you "why did you hurt me" is somehow mentally incompetent instead of... hurt?

Coupla things there, KF. When you use quotation marks as in "why did you hurt me", no one will know whether you are quoting verbatim, paraphrasing according to your interpretation, or being ironic, unless the context is obvious. Before I saw the the video, I assumed (incorrectly) that you were quoting the caller. About a minute after I saw the video, I couldn't tell you if the caller did or didn't use those words, and had to listen again. Turns out the caller never said that.

On the video: you'll note that RG does not become hostile when he is accused of being the worst mayor the city had ever known. I'd speculate that if the caller had continued in that vein, RG would have had a serious discussion about whether he was the worst mayor or not. But when he was accused of being "the biggest criminal in the city" I'm pretty sure RG knew the guy was a nutcase.

"You cut me off in my food-stamps and medicaid several times.."

I'm surprised the guy didn't say: "you gave me a parking ticket last Wednesday."

Giuliani knew the guy was loopy.

And what does the guys Parkinson's have to do with anything?

Ans. Nothing. This clip looks like a submission to a Michael Moore film festival.

{"commentId":553655,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"incredulous"}
  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:22 PM EST
{"commentId":553770,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

Sorry - you're correct that my "quotation" (irony quotes) wasn't a quotation at all but sort of a hybrid paraphrase/interpretation of the guys general thrust.

I'd object to your tarring this clip with Moore... and your characterization of Moore for that matter.

Did what this clip protrays happen? Sure. It's not fiction or anything like that.

It's certainly a valid interpretation of the events and tells this guy's side of the story. Lord knows Giuliani has the means to tell his own side.

{"commentId":553770,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:49 PM EST
{"commentId":554037,"authorDomain":"incredulous"}

I'd object to your tarring this clip with Moore... and your characterization of Moore for that matter.

Killfile objects to tarring! Cut to scene on discussion of the importance of tarring.

Ok, I'm half joking, but the video clip title is misleading because there's no connection between RG's comments and Parkinson's. Zippity zip, and it's the friggin' TITLE. Then you've got the hapless Mr. John Hynes stating for the video clip: "it was definitely the most hostile and bizarre reaction I ever had because people don't laugh at me."

This would have been more effective if we hadn't already known what a rude and accusatory guy Hynes was. It also shows, with a little thought, that Hynes probably gets away with his rudeness in his daily life simply because of his adversity. My entry in the Michael Moore documentary category would have him calling radio talk shows, badmouthing the host, starting with the Rudy clip, and showing images of the (I assume for now) nasty letters he's written to Medicaid, and so on. Then I'd prove that he hasn't a clue by appending the partial quote: "...people don't laugh at me." etc. (and I've still got about a pint of tar left)

{"commentId":554037,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"incredulous"}
  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:09 AM EST
{"commentId":555481,"authorDomain":"sam-clemmons"}

Killfile, I have to agree with the Incredulous One on this. Not only is your title completely misleading, but the seeded article is intentionally misleading and prejudicial. And that was its intent: to intentionally be misleading. Conjecture on my part, I think not and here's why:

If it was intended to fairly portray Giuliani for the insensitive ass that he is alleged to be in this video, then the article would have 1) linked only to an audio clip. Moreover, the article would have 2) linked to a full audio clip to accurately display the context of the conversation so the reader could be placed under the same conditions as Giuliani when he made his response. However, had that been done, everyone would have been, "huh? What's the big deal. I would have responded the same way (or a similar way)"

Instead, the intentionally misleading article shows video footage of the phone caller riding around in his wheel chair, with his head cocked to one side, while Giuliani is making his response. Thing is, Giuliani never saw the caller nor was he aware that the caller, who was acting abnormally, had Parkinson's disease or any other genuine ailment when in true New Yorker fashion, he shot from the hip.

Below, you defend your posting. I don't see how. Obviously, you don't want Giuliani to be shown in a favorable light. That is your right. However, given the other quality work I see you grow on the Vine, this one leaves me both empty and disappointed.

{"commentId":555481,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"sam-clemmons"}
  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:26 PM EST
{"commentId":555490,"authorDomain":"sam-clemmons"}

You changed the title. I concede that it is accurate. However, my concerns regarding the seeded article, which relies almost entirely on misleading and prejudicial video footage, remain fully intact.

{"commentId":555490,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"sam-clemmons"}
    #1.5 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:33 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":552634,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}

    Compassionate Conservative?

    {"commentId":552634,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
    • 9 votes
    Reply#2 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:46 AM EST
    {"commentId":552662,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

    Somehow I doubt we'll be hearing that particular phrase in 2008

    {"commentId":552662,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
    • 10 votes
    #2.1 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:29 AM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":552665,"authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}

    The video speaks volumes. First of all, the caller insulted Giuliani be calling him the worst mayer ever and a crook. Guiliani responded by insulting the guy back. Guiliani had no way of knowing that the guy had Parkinson's, so the headline is misleading to me. Bad form on both sides. Name-calling makes people defensive.

    {"commentId":552665,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}
    • 6 votes
    Reply#3 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:30 AM EST
    {"commentId":552996,"authorDomain":"clearcache"}

    I agree. The caller started off by calling Giuliani the biggest criminal in the city! I wouldn't take that too seriously myself - and I probably would have done more than laugh.

    Giuliani handled the call into his radio show just fine - but he perhaps did not handle the food stamp/medicaid issues just fine. Yeah, that was the caller's point, but the caller could have done a better job conveying that when he called in to the show.

    {"commentId":552996,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"clearcache"}
    • 6 votes
    #3.1 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:49 PM EST
    {"commentId":553090,"authorDomain":"jjsonp"}
    jjsonpDeleted
    Reply
    {"commentId":552826,"authorDomain":"yasmin"}

    ::pout:: The page won't load. If Giuliani didn't know the man had Parkinsons, then the headline is deceiving.

    {"commentId":552826,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"yasmin"}
    • 5 votes
    Reply#4 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:31 AM EST
    {"commentId":553059,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

    I'd argue its not. Giuliani wants to run for national office. He wants to put himself in a position to have a great deal of power and a great deal of responsibility.

    I don't think it matters very much if Giuliani knew the guy had Parkinson's. Giuliani decided the best response to a critic - hostile or otherwise - would be to mock him publicly without knowing all the facts.

    I'm not condemning Giuliani as a bad guy because he mocked a Parkinson's patient. I'm saying that his decision making process doesn't strike me as terribly thoughtful or through. This lapse of judgment lead to him being a bit of an @!$%# to a hostile caller. What sorts of consequences do errors in judgment have when they come from 1600 Pennsylvania Av?

    {"commentId":553059,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
    • 1 vote
    #4.1 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:39 PM EST
    {"commentId":553078,"authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}

    He responded rudely to a rude man who happened to have Parkinson's.

    {"commentId":553078,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}
    • 4 votes
    #4.2 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:55 PM EST
    {"commentId":553119,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

    He responded rudely to a rude man who happened to have Parkinson's.

    "Well [he] didn't bother to find out did [he]?"

    The infamous "Constitutional Peasant" sketch amusingly parodies this very sort of interaction. Arthur is thrown into a very comical and awkward situation precisely because he assumed something to be the case when it wasn't and lacked a good way to back out of it.

    Giuliani would never have said what he said if he'd known that this guy had Parkenson's. Why? Because Giuliani isn't a dick.

    But he snapped to a decision without knowing what was going on. Turns out he was wrong.

    I'm not saying Giuliani is a bad guy because he reacted the way he did -- just that I'd like a little more judicious decision making in a President.

    {"commentId":553119,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
    • 2 votes
    #4.3 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:22 PM EST
    {"commentId":553134,"authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}

    Yup. He responded poorly. No question. Does if foreshadow his decision-making skills as president? No. I think that a moment of rudeness does not overshadow the character & grit he showed during the whole 911 tragedy. I like Guiliani as a person. I'm not so enamored with his politics. In some ways, he reminds me of Reagan - a genuinely likable guy who possesses some admirable qualities - strip away the differences in politics and he's a pretty decent fellow.

    {"commentId":553134,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}
    • 2 votes
    #4.4 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:36 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":553156,"authorDomain":"upright-ape"}

    Rudy Giuliani reminds me of John Kerry: a quite unpersonal politician who relates very poorly to regular Joes. Public servants can't have condescending attitudes to their constituents. The first job of a politician is empathy, not sneering laughter.

    I have real doubts about how well Giuliani will play in Peoria once people get to know him beyond 9/11.

    {"commentId":553156,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"upright-ape"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#5 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:50 PM EST
    {"commentId":553243,"authorDomain":"charlie-b"}

    I had the displeasure of living under Giulianis regime in NY, and though I can't truly attest to his character not knowing him personally, I can say he always seemed like a dick to me. Most people only know him as the face of 911, but his ability to act in the face of tragedy does not make him or his politics sound.

    {"commentId":553243,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"charlie-b"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#6 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:52 PM EST
    {"commentId":553619,"authorDomain":"dehehn"}

    but his ability to act in the face of tragedy does not make him or his politics sound.

    'Act' being the optimal word.

    {"commentId":553619,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"dehehn"}
      #6.1 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:01 PM EST
      {"commentId":553630,"authorDomain":"clearcache"}

      I was in NYC that day - I think Giuliani & his city administration did a fair job. What's your specific criticism?

      {"commentId":553630,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"clearcache"}
      • 2 votes
      #6.2 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:05 PM EST
      {"commentId":556164,"authorDomain":"charlie-b"}

      I have no problem with the way Giuliani and Co. acted on 911. They responded quickly and appropriately. Unfortunately this is the only way the rest of America sees him. Hundreds of New Yorkers flocked towards ground zero and to hospitals to do what they can when all logic told them to head towards their families. New Yorkers are resilient and Rudy responded the only way he could.
      It's the rest of his term in office I have a problem with.

      {"commentId":556164,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"charlie-b"}
      • 1 vote
      #6.3 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:19 AM EST
      {"commentId":556762,"authorDomain":"clearcache"}

      Yeah, Charlie - while I actually felt safer than ever in NYC during Rudy's term, I know there many people who did not. He was not everyone's mayor, that's for sure. I happen to fit into the demographic of people he was working for, not against - but I can certainly see your point and agree ... that is a valid criticism.

      I also agree with your characterization of 9/11 - they were quick, efficient, and capable overall on 9/11. Were there mistakes? Surely. Could it have been much worse? Surely. The fact that the PATH trains were running at 5:30pm again and those of us who lived off the island got home, for the most part, by 8:30 or 9:00pm is amazing. Compared to DC, the NYC team were rockstars.

      {"commentId":556762,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"clearcache"}
      • 2 votes
      #6.4 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:02 PM EST
      Reply
      {"commentId":553722,"authorDomain":"ElDraque"}

      Biden X
      Giuliani X

      Clinton _
      Obama _
      Romney _
      McCain _

      Who is next?

      {"commentId":553722,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"ElDraque"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#7 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:17 PM EST
      {"commentId":553985,"authorDomain":"kerchenko"}

      who is next ?

      in this order:
      X mcCain
      X obama

      {"commentId":553985,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"kerchenko"}
      • 2 votes
      #7.1 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:56 AM EST
      Reply
      {"commentId":553867,"authorDomain":"scooterdman"}

      I think it's a cheap shot. The guy approached his gripe unprofessionally by putting Giuliani immediately on the defensive. He gave the reaction the caller was probably expecting. I'm no fan of Giuliani (and might even agree with the caller's premise), but his approach was tactless. There's no way Giuliani could have known he had Parkinsons.

      {"commentId":553867,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"scooterdman"}
      • 3 votes
      Reply#8 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:18 PM EST
      {"commentId":553883,"authorDomain":"adambecker"}

      Yep. Terribly misleading and inflammatory headline.

      {"commentId":553883,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"adambecker"}
      • 5 votes
      #8.1 - Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 PM EST
      {"commentId":553942,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

      Again I must disagree. Giuliani mocked a man. Mockery occured during a radio call in. Man in question has/had Parkinson's.

      How is "Giuliani mocks a man with Parkinson's during radio call in" not an accurate description of those three facts?

      Now if I had written "Giuliani mocks a man for having Parkinson's during radio call in" that would be entirely different.

      But that's not what I wrote.

      You may have assumed some things based upon the headline -- but the text of the headline itself is 100% accurate.

      {"commentId":553942,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
      • 1 vote
      #8.2 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:05 AM EST
      {"commentId":553947,"authorDomain":"adambecker"}

      It's possible to be accurate and misleading. Your headline implies the Parkinson's and the mockery are related, and you know this.

      You might as well have written "Giuliani mocks [man of certain race]." It is completely irrelevant.

      {"commentId":553947,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"adambecker"}
      • 4 votes
      #8.3 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:13 AM EST
      {"commentId":553950,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

      Sure -- I could have written "Giuliani mocks lawyer" "Giuliani mocks medicare beneficiary" "Giuliani mocks taxpayer"

      All of those would have been accurate too.

      Seriously -- looking at this article what headline would you have written? What change would you suggest?

      "Giuliani mocks a man with Parkinson's during radio call in but please don't take that to mean that Giuliani mocked him because he had Parkinson's - Rudy would never do that, he's too much of a class act" seemed a little too long for Newsvine.

      {"commentId":553950,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
        #8.4 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:19 AM EST
        {"commentId":553951,"authorDomain":"adambecker"}

        Why is the Parkinsan's noteworthy in the headline at all? If you don't think "Giuliani mocks man during radio call in" is sexy enough, why are you seeding the link?

        {"commentId":553951,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"adambecker"}
        • 3 votes
        #8.5 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:21 AM EST
        {"commentId":553965,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

        Did you follow the link? The man's Parkinsan's disease is a major component of the content in question. I didn't film it - it's a seed.

        Seriously - watch the film and write me a descriptive seed title. I think leaving the Parkinson's out of it altogether does an inexcusably poor job of describing the content. I'd have 100 comments in here saying "OMG! The guy has Parkinson's! Why isn't that in the title?"

        {"commentId":553965,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
        • 2 votes
        #8.6 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:33 AM EST
        {"commentId":553972,"authorDomain":"adambecker"}

        "Giuliani mocks radio caller, later finds out man has Parkinson's," or something to that extent, is much more accurate.

        {"commentId":553972,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"adambecker"}
        • 3 votes
        #8.7 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:41 AM EST
        {"commentId":554198,"authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}

        Suppose that caller had been a woman...so headlines should include things like "Guiliani mocks woman who was raped"...even though the woman had been raped 20 years ago. How about "Guiliani mocks man who lost wife to cancer"? Those may be accurate titles, but they lead the reader to believe that Guiliani did something much worse than he actually did. What about the people who merely scan the headlines? Do they get an accurate idea of what the story is about? No.

        {"commentId":554198,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}
        • 5 votes
        #8.8 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:07 AM EST
        {"commentId":554258,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

        Once again, however, we're back to the reader being lazy with language as the rational for me having to change a 100% correct title.

        I'll change the title per your (finally) articulated request.

        {"commentId":554258,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
          #8.9 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:18 AM EST
          {"commentId":554328,"authorDomain":"clearcache"}

          For the record - since lazy language is one of my pet peeves - I do believe the onus is on the author to make sure the language they use is very clear and does not lend itself to misrepresentation. Journalism.org presents some analysis on the State of the News Media every year and has begun to criticize some news sources for their use of inflammatory or biased.

          Even something as subtle as small descriptors like "Horrifying" and "Shocking" draw criticism because they imply that the listener/viewer should be horrified or shocked by the news story - in other words, telling the reader what to think. We are the ones that choose the language we use to describe these stories - it's up to us to be objective (if we want to be) and not appeal to emotional/whimsical reactions based on sensational headlines. I follow your stories and I do think you would like to be objective.

          In this case, the subject was misleading. It implied that the reason Giuliani mocked the caller is because he had Parkinsons. In fact, as my earlier comment noted, I think the real meat of the story has absolutely nothing to do with the caller or Giuliani's reaction to the caller - it has everything to do with his administration's impact on Medicaid and food stamp benefits. That's the real zinger. What did he do and why? Those are the real important questions here.

          A headline of "Giuliani Policies in NYC Deprived Thousands of Medicaid and Food Stamp Benefits" would have been accurate and quite "impactful" [sic].

          {"commentId":554328,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"clearcache"}
          • 2 votes
          #8.10 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:11 AM EST
          Reply
          {"commentId":553999,"authorDomain":"kerchenko"}
          {"commentId":553999,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"kerchenko"}
          • 2 votes
          Reply#9 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:12 AM EST
          {"commentId":555467,"authorDomain":"incredulous"}

          Once again, however, we're back to the reader being lazy with language as the rational for me having to change a 100% correct title.

          Wrong. The title is misleading. It's as simple as that. Your insistence that it is merely the perception of readers who are "lazy with language" that makes the original title: "Rudy Giuliani makes fun of a man with Parkinson's during radio call in" misleading displays a fair degree of arrogance. The "lazy with language" readers to whom you refer are not a committee of editors deciding what content should be changed; they are your readers, or are you referring to some other lazy readers?

          As any number of readers have pointed out to you, there are many ways to produce an accurate albeit misleading headline.

          Your subsequent selection fails for a different reason.

          "Giuliani mocks radio caller, later finds out man has Parkinson's"

          How do you know Giuliani found out later that the man had Parkinson's? If he did find out, I didn't learn it from the video or related story. If I should have, then I retract my comment on that point.

          I assume that Adam Becker's suggestion #8.7 was inadvertent, as he seems also to be concerned that the title convey something simultaneously accurate and not misleading. If it's accurate (and not misleading), I'd appreciate someone pointing it out to me, and I'll stand corrected.

          {"commentId":555467,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"incredulous"}
          • 2 votes
          Reply#10 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:14 PM EST
          {"commentId":555859,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

          My "selection," my very critical friend, was the only suggested or provided headline which even vaguely approached the content of the seed in question. Rather than pontificating upon the great injustice I've obviously perpetuated upon poor Mr Giuliani (whose campaign war-chest and vast personal wealth obviously quail before the awesome might of a Newsvine column) or continuing to deride my efforts to amend the headline why don't you provide one which better fits the bill?

          Don't worry. I'm not holding my breath.

          {"commentId":555859,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"killfile"}
          • 1 vote
          #10.1 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:28 PM EST
          {"commentId":556107,"authorDomain":"incredulous"}

          Rather than pontificating upon the great injustice I've obviously perpetuated upon poor Mr Giuliani

          I don't give a rodent's rear end about Giuliani or any perceived injustice to him. He can take care of himself, as you ably point out. I don't even like the guy. Someone gave me his self-serving book as a gift when it first came out, and I still haven't read it. The issue is, was, and has been about the misleading headline, and your insistence that it is not misleading. I would have said the same thing if the object of derision were Keith Obermann. The headline was misleading. I would not have challenged you (and didn't) to produce a better one. Actually, I don't think anyone challenged you to produce a better one, though everyone objected that it was misleading.

          why don't you provide one which better fits the bill?

          because it's not my problem, sir.

          I'm not holding my breath.

          I hope you'll reconsider.

          {"commentId":556107,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"incredulous"}
            #10.2 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:00 AM EST
            Reply
            {"commentId":555681,"authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}

            Poor Killfile. We're all jumping on your case. You've made a terrible tactical error. When you used that picture for Mykola's interview, you should have looked tougher. I refuse to be intimidated by a man with adorable dimples. ;) Sorry.

            {"commentId":555681,"threadId":"79636","contentId":"585740","authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}
            • 2 votes
            Reply#11 - Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:44 PM EST
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