A Contemplation Of Trust in Social Media

I used to watch Colbert but noticed that he had a Yoda ear, that completely caused me to think on whether people are laughing at his humor or at his ear...now I am totally fixated on his left ear and when I pointing that out to my friends, when end up counting the number of times his Yoda ear is completely visible. Perhaps this too is a reason why I very rarely believe anything that the MSM presents as unbiased opinoin, their Yoda ear always sticks out now.

What is satire for one is inappropriate and without virtue for another. What warrants social ostracization for one warrants a wink and a nod for another.

This isn't about media it is about community behavior and double standards.

Double standards exist everywhere, Newsvine is no exception.

New Comic Strip: Teeny Devils.

Why settle for double standards, when triple standards are so readily available?

The Postmodernist Anti-Defamation League. Stop by Teeny Devils, ever and anon, I am having way too much fun.

Eric:

I've been trying to find a way to say that since this whole flap unfolded.

Couldda fooled me. Could you link to one of those attempts? (Although I've been away from the relevant threads lately)

A small bit here, but mostly here. And possibly on one of the removed articles.

Eric:

Okay, cool. I just had a strong sense of you being one of the in-on-its yesterday, which you may well have been, but I can see that upon reflection you did raise those concerns.

By the way, you stole my line on the VERY FIRST click on the first Prank article I saw, fake-Viki's. I clicked on it intending to say "Yes," and I REALLY hadn't read the article. Just scrolled down and saw your comment.

I clicked on it intending to say "Yes," and I REALLY hadn't read the article.

Ha, that was my thought exactly.

I wasn't technically an "in on it." I had an inkling about it fairly early in the day and started leaving comments hinting that I thought something was up, and then I got a bunch of e-mails telling me to play stop it 'cause I was letting things out too soon.

After that I became somewhat of an enabler. I certainly could have stopped it so I guess I became an "in on it" as the day went on since I thought it was kind of funny (though I have no idea what happened to Myk's column... I made a comment or two, went for a long lunch meeting, came back and it was in my tracker with 20 comments but had been pulled.)

Once everything came out, it could certainly have been handled far better by the pranksters and I question the "official story" that's been facsimiled on all their columns but I also felt this furor about "the doom of Newsvine" was exaggerated. I certainly didn't think it deserved 6 articles complaining about it this morning, though perhaps writing my own satirizing those complaining about the prank wasn't the most productive thing to do.

Eric:

All good, except I disagree with this:

I certainly didn't think it deserved 6 articles complaining about it this morning,

The explosion of articles was a function of the intensity of feeling generated, and it's not llike THOSE six articles were co-ordinated and calculated in advance.

Every one of the pranksters is now saying "I accept responsibility." Well, guess what? Six articles on the front page is part of the cost they need to take responsibility for.

Every one of the pranksters is now saying "I accept responsibility."

How can you not accept responsibility for a prank you have admitted?

I think it is reasonable that the people who feel hurt by the prank get to speak out, let out some steam, a small compensation.

One of the problems, I think, having reviewed some of the articles, is that they are sort of completely unbelievable to anyone who knows the style of writing of these people, and in that way the articles are funny. I think the 12 weren't really adjusted to the vast inflow of new users who would not grasp the joke. I don't think they conspired to make people look foolish or come off as some kind of elite, laughing at the expense of others - I think they just expected people to call them quicker, and then the time before they could laugh together with others got, well, postponed indefinitely...

Anyway, that is my best explanation for this. Waves get a bit high from time to time in this community. Anybody remembers the Ally McBeal series? They always mess each other up, and then end up forgiving each other, saying

"bygones".

No Maoistic introspection, no public confessions, no legal sanctions (except for the ones they impose on others). I kinda like that, compared to traditional Christian forgiveness or other types of formalized apologizing. To think you can learn something like that from a trivial soap...

"bygones".

We accepted responsibility when we published the explanation on the articles, not later.

All good, except I disagree with this:

I certainly didn't think it deserved 6 articles complaining about it this morning,

I should clarify that I didn't think it deserved six articles on the front page crying out how the prank was going to destroy Newsvine. Hence, my article.

Eric:

You missed my point. It's not like there was a collective decision to ensure that six articles about a certain subject all erupted on the front page all at once.

Six individual people were moved enough to make six individual decisions that ended up producing six individual articles on the front page all once but independent of each other. The idea of "six articles" is an illusion to each of the six authors because to them it was their ONE article they were writing about an event expressing their individual, and in most cases, PERSONAL response.

You can say "Six articles at once is undeserved" and as a matter of fact, I agree with you. But which of those six individual authors would you declare as unworthy to offer an opinion so as to reduce the number of articles?

All of a sudden you're making moral or normative or human-editorial decisions and stepping into the muck all that entails.

Claus:

One of the problems, I think, having reviewed some of the articles, is that they are sort of completely unbelievable to anyone who knows the style of writing of these people

That, of course, is one of the literary problems with the texts (or rather, the audience in most cases) that I'll get to some other time if I feel like it.

You can say "Six articles at once is undeserved" and as a matter of fact, I agree with you. But which of those six individual authors would you declare as unworthy to offer an opinion so as to reduce the number of articles?

I don't believe I said they were unworthy to voice their opinions. I would have preferred they would have been articulated in the comment fields of the first such article to be published.

I like what you two said here.

tonespeed,

It's always nice to hear such words, although I suspect Killfile's article and response is probably more lucid when concerning the matter and mine. In the time since I wrote the above comment, a lot of the focus on the fall-out side of things seems to have shifted from vague demands for apologies, and general indignation, to a far more particular form. I'm not going to list anyone's comments as I doubt the need for it, however the negative fall-out now does appear to be coalesced around a few particulars. In short, this event has become even less about the community as a whole, and far more about individual personalities.

In sum: The relevancy now of a discussion of how 'Schizovine' affected the community and cohesion, appears to be moot, as the case now appears to simply be how it affected particular personalities, who are in some cases themselves creating trouble. When I said it could turn into a metastatic wound in the community in my original post, I grossly over- estimated; of which I am very happy to say.

My final remark is that consideration of an apology should be dismissed. If this has been battled out like some day-long Pong game, back and forth constantly, then that's likely reason to believe that even were an apology given, it wouldn't be good enough for those wishing for one.

I'm now going to top a bottle of cheap wine, consider which scarf to wear out, and head for the pub.

The goal of "The Prank" was to make others look foolish.

No, it wasn't.

I don't think the goal of the prank was to hurt people. It's just that for something to be funny it has to be cruel on some level.

very well said, Apple Annie

Though I highly doubt that many of them actually espouse the "we want to make you not trust the Internet" motive. Looking at the users, and what they've done over the last year it's kind of clear that they do understand that, on Newsvine at least, the community exists because we trust in digital relationships. I don't expect that too too many people would have gotten that about them, it's a truth that sheds a questioning light on that particular, I guess, excuse that was given.

it's a truth that sheds a questioning light on that particular, I guess, excuse that was given.

good point. i made the comment elsewhere, but i'll say again that i'd like to know what was discussed by these authors in the planning stages. might be a good look into how they approached it. at least now, the comments i've read, only from a few, granted, seem to indicate a certain arrogance about what they did. at the very least, this was a clear violation of the code of honor. that newsvine staff has chosen no punishment, it seems any possible arrogance was justified.

I agree, firsty

I hate to be a thread jacker, but as any good joke, telling it too many times to the same people gets old. Comparing the joke to the joke we've been told by our government crawls along in the same vine.

Comparing the joke to the joke we've been told by our government crawls along in the same vine.

sorry - can you clarify what you mean by that?

It is a commercial purchase, you know.

Obviously Claus. Is that a revelation?

I think everyone here is aware that MSNBC is hoping to make a profit from Newsvine in SOME way. I am not entirely clear what that way may be. If you are, please feel free to share your information.

I harbor no self-important delusion that I possess any form of paranormal ability that may enable me to divine the ultimate goals of MSNBC's corporate culture. Perhaps, too, at this early point in their acquisition of Newsvine, neither is MSNBC totally clear on where Newsvine fits into their profit picture.

It is quite possible that the MSNBC's contract with Newsvine provides some type of evaluation period, and an escape clause for MSNBC, before the contract is finalized.

Shaun, I am not sure if this will change a thing, even when comes to MSNBC. They are, most likely, not evaluating from a journalistic/editorial perspective, but in terms of ad revenue, which simply depends on click ratio, duration of visits, and so forth.

Speaking from a purely monetary stand point you are likely accurate. They do, presently, have their own citizen journalists venue for those wishing to contribute to MSNBC directly. It is here

Based on the original news articles in the papers and on the net announcing MSNBC's purchase of Newsvine, my guess is that MSNBC is interested in the discussions around the news articles rather than the actual news, as a way to pull in page views for the ad revenue.

I have no doubt Money is likely a very important issue for MSNBC on many levels. Hence my perspective is more a legal one regarding credibility issues, discrimination issues, defamation issues, fraud, etc. These issues may lead to less exposure for credible Newsvine's journalists, or perhaps MSNBC will eliminate Newsvine completely.

Obviously Claus. Is that a revelation?

Sorry if I have offended you. I did not mean to be patronizing. I just don't think the prank is that big a deal, in the overall picture. I certainly do not think it is reasonable to label the pranksters "perpetrators", as some have done, or to forecast the destruction of Newsvine over a prank like this.

Let me say this: Any community that can be torn to pieces over a joke, really deserves to.

That statement has nothing to do with whether or not it was an appropriate joke, and I mean no disrespect to people who got their feelings hurt or felt they lost trust in the community.

MSNBC, unless they fundamentally alters the terms and conditions of membership, intend to make money from ad revenue based on traffic. Any kind of traffic, in a sense, is money. Ads do not discriminate. Now, if users are leaving the community wholesale over misconduct, the misconduct must be addressed. It is simply bad business.

MSNBC, unless they fundamentally alters the terms and conditions of membership, intend to make money from ad revenue based on traffic.

There may be other ways that they can use Newsvine to increase traffic to their main site, that will enable MSNBC to make money through increased exposure.

The question remains, what type of exposure does MSNBC or their parent company deem appropriate for their audience.

MSNBC is a large TRADITIONAL news agency, as such they may need to abide by stricter rules and regulations than would a small snarky independently owned website that was the original Newsvine.

You may not have seen all the articles, Claus. At least one was removed. There are issues of discrimination, political correctness, pleasing the larger audience, etc that may concern MSNBC even though it never concerned the original Newsvine owners.

A large company can NOT flout the rules as easily as can a small startup, for various reasons too complex to address in this post.

At least one was removed.

Just to clarify this, it was not removed by Newsvine or the community. It was removed by the owner of the column.

His decision.

Mykola Bilokonsky thought it was a bit too much to expose his family to his fake coming out, right? That's understandable.

How about

discrimination

political correctness

pleasing the larger audience

Inform me, please.

that may concern MSNBC even though it never concerned the original Newsvine owners.

Oh, I am sure the former owners have been concerned. I am also sure MSNBC is concerned - at least that is what I get from Calvin Tang's article. Still, what is there to do? As I see it the MSNBC thing is drawn in by Calvin to explain matters and try to calm everyone down, kind of like a father appealing to unreasonably aggravated children, saying that they may all have to leave the restaurant, because they can neither behave nor get along. It is being used rhetorically to sort of enhance the horrifying irresponsibility of the 12, and that appears to me to be somewhat of a charade. Are you guys kidding me? This community is totally anarchistic, and online communities tend to be, and people are notoriously insensitive towards each other in discussions. I can't recall a time when somebody did not feel compelled to air their grievances all over the front page. I had a friend of mine, a former NASA worker driven out, by people - fortunately or unfortunately I do not know who they are - by leftist innoendo, and another who is a Regional Platform Manager of Microsoft banned for responding to rightist innuendo, so what...? Are you saying that everything will be good-fine, as long as we slam the 12 real hard? Or are you saying we should make an example of them in public to discourage others from doing something like this? Or are you saying that something like this and even worse is unlikely to occur again, now that the community has found "community spirit?"

That is kind of my basis for arguing the way I do. If you say that "we should all be ashamed of our conduct and try to get it together", I can follow you. I agree. Sensitivity training for everyone.

Inform me, please.

This statement that I made which you seemed to have latched onto: "that may concern MSNBC even though it never concerned the original Newsvine owners," is a reference to Newsvine, pre-MSNBC ownership.

I am not an OLD VINER, but prior to MSNBC involvment, pranks on Newsvine, typically tagged appropriately, were not unusual. I don't think my statement made that clear.

As far as MSNBC's current mindset. You seem to have drawn definitive conclusions about their present or pending reactions.

I have no clue to MSNBC's mindset regarding prior or present anarchistic behavior by Newsvine member, nor their true reasons for purchasing Newsvine. Do you have definitive, attributable source information? If so, please cite it.

As I said in post 11.1:

I harbor no self-important delusion that I possess any form of paranormal ability that may enable me to divine the ultimate goals of MSNBC's corporate culture. Perhaps, too, at this early point in their acquisition of Newsvine, neither is MSNBC totally clear on where Newsvine fits into their profit picture.

Claus said:

If you say that "we should all be ashamed of our conduct and try to get it together", I can follow you. I agree. Sensitivity training for everyone.

Now we are on the same wavelength, Claus. You seem to want to argue the issue on a personal level. I am simply discussing realistic areas of concern that need to be addressed from a general and objective corporate perspective.

Head in sand syndrome, regarding areas of concern, is never a good business strategy.

Yep, fun and games is a part of what made the Newsvine community what it is today. I remember a lot of pranks, but none with the feroucious fallout that we have seen on this one. Every single one of the participants are widely popular, level-headed and consistent contributors to Newsvine.

Watch out for overkill, folks. I can appreciate that it was a CoH violation and it must be taxed as such, but these guys are not the "cool crowd" for nothing. All of them have shown themselves to be great guys and girls, deeply concerned with the wellbeing of the community and with the individuals in it.

Boot them or make them leave due to exhaustion, and you will have a hard time replacing them or matching their efforts.

batmanchester,

I have no idea what you are saying. I can see that you do not have caps lock on, but somehow your tone resembles it.

If I have accidentally pointed out exactly something you have been saying, I apologize.

Companies set their own rules, called bylaws, and those rules are as open and unrestrictive as possible because companies also hire very smart lawyers. Long story short: you're just not gonna find a "rule" that this is really against.

There are legal issues involved, regarding political correctness, need to appease shareholders, and need to please advertisers, as well as the majority of users.

Lawsuits, whether legitimate or not, cost money to process and defend.

Why do you think the article written under Mykola's byline was requested to be taken down? It raise issues.

It was not requested to be taken down.

Myk took it down for his own reasons.

That is inaccurate, Dennis, based on Myks own posting.

Here is Myk's post from Jack's article.

Point taken, Brian - actually, I didn't take it down first. The first thing I did was put up a disclaimer at the top saying "Relax, it's only a prank, I'm sorry if this has offended you..." but was asked to take it down instead.

I guess of all of them the one that ended up in my column was the only one that I thought seemed like it might hurt someone. It was written from the perspective of "Hur hur, gay is funny" and that was kind of not in keeping with the spirit of the joke, from my perspective.

I've explained elsewhere my reasons for taking it down, not least of which the fact that my girlfriend was really troubled by it and the genuine concern we received made us feel terrible.

I dunno, I guess in the end it boils down to "I didn't think that that one element was funny." I guess that could make me a hypocrite. But I'm not going to write 10 articles bashing its author, ya know?
4
!
#3.10 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:59 AM EST

Here is the link to Jack's article: Go here

It wasn't Newsvine that asked him to take it down, it was me.

He started posted comments on his thread saying that it was just a prank. I didn't think he should unilaterally give up the prank so early, so I asked him to just delete it, so that those comments wouldn't be visible.

He agreed, and did.

I understand how you could have assumed he was asked by Newsvine, but he wasn't. Please feel free to verify this with Myk.

Dennis:

He started posted comments on his thread saying that it was just a prank. I didn't think he should unilaterally give up the prank so early, so I asked him to just delete it, so that those comments wouldn't be visible.

Good enough. :)

I don't doubt for a moment that my credibility, and those of the other participants, was thrown into question. Of course, it was. But really I don't see how it effects the other users, or the site as a whole.

Articles come an go rather quickly here, as you know. A single article (in this case 12) cannot possibly have a significant impact on the credibility of the whole site, in my opinion. That credibility is based on the total - it is cumulative, and as I said above, there are articles posted here every single day that are far more damaging. I associate those articles with the user, not with Newsvine as a whole, and I would think everyone else does too.

"if it could only handle humor separately..." or "if you could only categorize something as satire...

I have been asking for this for a very long time. We currently have news, opinion and other categories. I would love to see "community" and "satire" added to that.

Anyway, lessons learned for everyone, I hope. Let's grow and move on.

Amen to that.

Kill,

People come and go very quickly around here. Articles and seeds fly through this site even quicker. Memories are short, as new events replace the old constantly.

Seriously, you needn't worry about it, I feel You weren't involved in any way at all. Think of the last big scandal here. Anyone remember it? Did it change anything? Nope.

Dennis you have proved that one can be an artist and be blind as well.

Try, just for a second, to see this from another perspective. I think people will eventually move on from this one way or another, but I gotta say that your response to this whole thing has prolonged the outrage because you appear to only be looking at it from one perspective; yours.

I have enjoyed the writings of all involved in the past and I am sure will do so in the future.

One side of this needs to forgive and move on, the other side needs to own up to the feelings they hurt and move on as well.

But really I don't see how it effects the other users, or the site as a whole.

because nobody judges the site against the entire content. it is judged on what is read, and when the most popular authors — whose articles within minutes hit the front page on number of comments and vote along — write compromising material, that is how the site is judged by a huge portion of readers.

OK, but they're just as quickly gone, and soon forgotten.

Look. I'm sorry that feelings were hurt, and I've apologized for that profusely. We all have. But this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion, and I've tried to get people to see what really happened. Some people wrote articles. Disappointed their readers. We're sorry about that. Really.

But we didn't kill anybody, and I'm not going to stop making jokes. About everything. It's who I am, you know?

Christ, we were called terrorists! How can I not laugh at that?

OK, but they're just as quickly gone, and soon forgotten.

I've got to agree with this. I mean, there have been a lot of controversies that spawned multiple articles and thousands of comments, that resulted in hurt feelings, that let to suggestions that "Newsvine was going to the dogs" or "failing" or "just not the same." Those overwrought impressions never bore out. Did we survive GoReporter and Ardith? Did we survive integrating the NYT 'fugees? Did we survive the MSNBC acquisition? Of course we did. This isn't different, in kind.

Some people didn't recognize that this was just another clockwork explosion of Newsvine meta, which comes around about once a quarter. Some of the same people who always complain didn't disappoint. Some of the new users got sucked up into the vortex, and are now partially inculcated in the ways of Newsvine meta drama.

Of course, there will always be new new users to feed another explosion some time down the road. How's June for everyone? Same bat channel?

#16.3

We all write under the Newsvine banner and that banner represents an endorsement and - to some degree - a brand.

I agree with Killfile. I am a casual user, and I see the value of the Newsvine site as the sum of its parts, or the sum of its writers. It's no different than believing in a particular mainstream publication because of the quality and integrity of its writers.

Dennis McCann: You guys are certainly NOT terrorists by any means. But a guy who just received an RAV should have given a resounding NO when approached about whether to engage in The Prank. You should have used your position to discourage others, rather than joining them. Listen to Calvin Tang. He's trying to tell you something.

When you say 'my column is mine and doesn't affect anyone else here' (paraphrased), this only applies if you are speaking about a private blog or your own website. There are serious writers here contributing to Newsvine. If there weren't this place would just be another version of Digg, which it definitely is not.

CT is right about something else. This whole thing is going to go away a lot quicker if some of the people involved stop trying to defend their actions. And I deleted that other article today, as a start to the 'leave this behind' process.

But a guy who just received an RAV should have given a resounding NO when approached about whether to engage in The Prank.

The prank was planned a month ago and executed before I was awarded the RAV, so at the time I was not yet a pretentious ass and still had a sense of humor.

Not you, Kill, me.

Last Thursday I became pretentious ass, or so I hear.

some of them still don't get it, and refuse to take personal responsibility. they are shameful. how they were ever considered pillars of this weird community speaks volumes, both of their arrogance, and the eagerness of some to suck up to them, even now. the 12 should be banned, and if they want to return, the community should vote on it, with a super majority required for reinstatement

some of them still don't get it, and refuse to take personal responsibility.

Which ones?

No articles, no seeds, you registered this month.

Wow. Just wow.

tonespeed:

Bizarre and uninformed diatribe - just IMHO

Oh and welcome to Newsvine!!!!!

No articles, no seeds, you registered this month
Wow. Just wow..

Dennis when you make comments like this you only reinforce the clique meme that is floating around here. It seems as though you are shoving your leaderboard position in the face of other users and finding them wanting. I know this occurs already amongst some users and it's damaging in the long term, it's human nature I suppose. It is why I am opposed to the idea of a leaderboard.

I don't agree with the statement that tonespeed made, but that doesn't give me the right to shove my (meager) leaderboard position in his face to support my superiority. However real or imagined it may be.

Put yourself in my place, Jimster.

Sorry, I'm naive and uninformed then, but still, its weird and rotten at some personal level, and am I allowed to mention my first article?

Dennis, why did you tell me to shut the @!$%# up? Do you want to make an apology, this time a sincere one, for telling me this? Whats wrong with the moral compass of you 12?

I apologize for hurting feelings, and I apologize for that last statement.

I'm too defensive, and I became angry. I have to work on that. I'll restate it.

To those of you who don't know me, please don't assume. Ask.

And have a little compassion if possible, I'm only human.

Dennis, the problem with being such a Newsvine 'celebrity' as you are, is that people tend to expect more of those in the limelight than those who are considered 'ordinary' mortals, so the pressure is always on to have to live some sort of superhuman existence to please everyone. But you cannot please everybody. You owe nothing to anyone except yourself: setting your behaviour, your own standards, your aspirations, your compassion. You have to be you and please yourself first and letting off steam is a natural part of being you. However, if others believe your standards/ behaviour to be wanting, only you can decide what action you wish to take about it because only you can set your own value in their eyes. I suppose telling a newcomer to shut up so forcefully would diminish that respect somewhat.

I think you are a wonderful talented man who has tremendous respect from Newsvine members. Being generous with that respect in return would be nice, especially for newcomers. Of all the 'pranksters', you have been the one fielding most of the comments, offering apologies and taking the flak. I have been full of admiration for that and fully accept your apology, personally. I am thrilled to have you as my friend because I have a lot to learn from your incisiveness, cool detachment and concise analytical approach to what you cover.

Thanks for just being there, Dennis, because the past couple of days cannot have been easy for you. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly appreciate it myself.

I agree with Ms CYPRAH. I have been reading this blog since about the time of the Bhutto assassination, but haven't written anything until this droll betrayal, and how odd that senior and respected people were involved. I haven't said things to the 12 before, but liked some of them. Dennis, thanks for apologizing, and forget I wrote something else about it on another article, I think on the satire one about freeing you 12. I don't know what to ask of you Dennis, except that maybe you can lead the other 12 to collectively post a unified and sincere apology. I bet Ms CYPRAH here could even help you 12 with an ideal rough draft.

Thanks for all that Ms. Cyprah.

I suppose telling a newcomer to shut up so forcefully would diminish that respect somewhat.

You're right. I responded in anger, and I'm sorry.

Being generous with that respect in return would be nice, especially for newcomers. Of all the 'pranksters', you have been the one fielding most of the comments, offering apologies and taking the flak.

I would like to point out here that I always have been, as you know. I have sort of a reputation around here for always remaining calm, always helping new people any way I can, and always abiding by the CoH. This time that didn't happen, and I'm sorry.

Thanks for just being there, Dennis,

And thank you too. For being here, and for this comment.

I don't know what to ask of you Dennis, except that maybe you can lead the other 12 to collectively post a unified and sincere apology

tonespeed,

I can't lead anyone, nor should I. A big part of the point I was trying to make is that people shouldn't see me as a leader. I'm just another Newsviner, like everyone else. People should be checking my facts and verifying my sources, just as they should for everyone.

Myk posted an apology, and did so unilaterally. But I know Myk well enough to know he was sincere, and in my first comment I said that I could be counted as a co-Signer.

I know that everyone is really sorry that people had their feelings hurt, but we have all apologized profusely, and I'm not sure there's anything else we can do.

I don't know what to ask of you Dennis, except that maybe you can lead the other 12 to collectively post a unified and sincere apology.

That might not be a bad idea, Tonespeed, thanks for suggesting it. I am sure many members of Newsvine would appreciate it, if it is truly sincere. At least it would give a sense of closure.

The first law of greatness is not being without faults, blemishes or weaknesses. It is to accept those perceived faults with humility, to accept one's fallibility and to move on after any disagreement with greater knowledge, awareness and renewed pride in who we are and wish to be.

Dennis-

You actually can lead, in ways you might not have considered, but you have to be motivated, and I think you are pretty motivated. I believe you among the 12 are the most motivated, and the most concerned about the shame and hurt you 12 brought to your blog family at large. Ms CYPRAH seems so classy, wise, and compassionate that she would be a major asset to any posted unified, collective, group apology should you get all 12 of your droll group to commit. I bet she will do something perfect and amazing for you 12, and for this whole community!

Ms CYPRAH, you have a heart of gold, and shine brilliantly! Please, if I'm not overstepping, maybe e-mail Dennis, and others of the 12 you are friends with, to help them post a sincere collective apology article. I bet they will get lots of love back, and be well on their way to having their reputations redeemed. Thanks, MsCYPRAH, and may the 12 actually follow Dennis into redemption, with your aid!

Ms CYPRAH seems so classy, wise, and compassionate that she would be a major asset to any posted unified, collective, group apology should you get all 12 of your droll group to commit. I bet she will do something perfect and amazing for you 12, and for this whole community!

That is one hell of a compliment, Topspeed, thank you, but I am afraid of not being able to live up to those awesome expectations! Though well-meaning, they might be a trifle high in this case!

I really do not see myself as the moderator here. I simply state my heartfelt views in relation to what has been written, to provide another perspective, and hope they are of value. If I can be of any help, I would be most willing to assist, but it is up to others to email me to request it. I would never take it upon myself to impose, or interject, what individuals should do about their situation because that is up to them and their own goals. I might have the gift of people understanding and expression more than many members of the Vine, but I am no more, and no less, than one single member in my presence and views, like every other of my esteemed colleagues, and would prefer to keep it that way.

But thanks for your valuable suggestion and contribution, Topspeed. Every little does help.

thank you, Ms CYPRAH. i haven't been here very long, but have read for about a couple of months, off and on, and was frankly startled about this droll house prank. I will let it be now. As you said, I have my own goals, too, and i don't want you to think that one of them is to push you into doing something you don't want. I was just hopeful, but i don't want to alienate you. Thanks again, and also thanks for accepting my invitation to be one of my friends.

Oooops, so sorry. I kept calling you 'Topspeed', not sure why. My sincere apologies, Tonespeed. :o)

And you would certainly not 'alienate' me with positive thoughts like yours. After all, you are showing me personal value. How can I not be appreciative? Please remember one crucial thing in interactions: it is your right to suggest how you feel at all times, and another's right to accept it or reject it. That's what happened here.

I feel you will be a valuable friend to me too, thank you.

such expectations i must live up to! i am a low-key person almost religiously, but was startled to act after reading so much the past few days, which was very different from what i read the past two months or so. i will enjoy being your friend here, and count me in on your goals here, so long as no pranks are rerquired. thanks.

Man. If Kinnison could have been a Newsvine member….

He would have been in on this prank.

And then refused to apologize. Loudly.

Hi Killfile,

Maybe we agree, but if it means throwing satire and humor on the back pages while the front page has 60% Obama (and the rest Hillary) articles then count me out.

I throw my satire articles in Odd News, and use the Satire tag - or occasionally the "not-satire" tag - seems fair.

But I am strongly against the partitioning of these articles. Just my 2 cents

no LOLcats??
What about Kitlers?

chill, as I understand it, satire would be a new category, not a new module. So you could write political satire, categorize it as satire, but still publish it to the the Politics section. Front page placement wouldn't be affected, although it might allow, for instance, MSNBC.com to pick up articles of a certain type for their own sections (e.g. all satire articles might feed into MSNBC's humor section, or all non-satire political articles might feed into their politics section, etc.).

yep it makes sense.

As I said, i don't think I disagree that much with Mr File. I just think there are LOTS of people here with different ideas of what NV stands for and the acrimony over the drollhouse 12 has by some been totally overblown - with much of it coming from people with absolutely no history at the Vine.

Killfile says, in part:

'As Tom has said that's why we need other categories for work. We need "fiction" and "meta" and "personal" and the like because a lot of what we do here isn't news.'

A resounding yes to that idea.

Some are accusing the Drollhouse 12 of perpetuating some sort of terrorist attack

My favorite one, that. And apparently I'm not supposed to respond, unless I say "yes. You're right. I'm a terrorist. I apologize. Please punish me."

I've been trying to keep this all in perspective while apologizing for hurt feelings. I may not have done that as well as I could have, but c'mon, folks.

Just tell me what you want me to do.

Dirt Clod,

Very reasonable response. I'd like to hear more from you.

You can't really throw "fiction" on a back page. You'd have to go through these threads and comb out all ill-informed comments, mistakes and otherwise "out of left field" remarks, which would leave some of these discussions empty lol.

Just my thought.

I was thinking about criticizing Dennis McCann earlier this week, but why? If I was in his shoes, I'd be hard pressed to handle this panicked backlash and some of the things that were said about him and a few of the others.

Yea, the Drollhouse 12 aren't above or beyond criticism or sanctions. The problem occurs, really, when overkill sets in. It is difficult to side with people who claim a prank has destroyed the entire community, calls people "perpetrators" for "committing" it, and calls for sanctions that may be, reversely, dubbed "cruel and unusual". It is impossible not to stand by upstanding and outstanding members of the community, when they are exposed to a veritable witch hunt. It kind of defies its purpose to make it so personal. They crossed the CoH in a very tangible manner, and they felt a response, and they are big enough to accept the repercussions without wining. They are true viners.

What they did, before, during, after, may be criticizable from a multitude of angles. It may have been elitist. Egos may have become overblown. Reactions to the public outroar may have been reflexive, defensive, insulated against unintentional wounds of others. But it all counts for nothing, if the point of attack is

"they destroy the site".

This is Newsvine. We, who have been a part of this community for years, have stuck together through many a crisis. We have learned to live side by side with people we dislike, disagree with and distrust, as well as people we love, care about and consider friends. It is the way things are, and the tone gets rough, and we grow leather skin to get past whatever issues we run into. The community has been through a lot worse, and it did not destroy the site.

Now, trust have been diminished. A rift has occured. Let's rebuild trust. Let's build bridges.

I'm sure there are a few people here who will offer to drive me to the airport.

Well I have a confession: I was getting all up in the air about this at first. Then I took a breath and apparently the meds kicked in, throwing me into Rodney King mode.

WARNING: USE OF SATIRE IMMINENT!
You have to look at the Drollhouse 12's overall contribution to society beyond the prank. Like the IRA they've taken a big labelling hit. While this has the effect of ostracizing them to many, it also helps in their recruitment efforts to those who want to see them stamped out. So keep beating up on them and their power will only increase.

I say FREE THE DROLLHOUSE 12!!!!

OKAY - NOW LEAVING SATIRE MODE
The interesting thing about Newsvine is the fact that we ENJOY what we're doing here and some very serious news comes to light. The Drollhouse 12 are right in the middle of this and and a direct cause of much of that serious news.

I'd like Newsvine to say the way it is, open. Yes, that means opening the door to flamers, tamers, lamers and false-claimers, but it makes the whole thing spicier, like a good pizza.

Dennis made a powerful statement in Post 21.1. Nobody has the right to keep beating up on him from this point forward. And if memory serves me right this isn't the first time that he's said he's sorry (And the others have too) and he's even asking, "what do you guys want me to do?" What else can the guy do?

I think that I may have even been fooled by a couple of those spoofs, I can't even remember at this point because it doesn't matter. But the "gaping wound of I'm not the smartest guy on here every day" has healed. I really don't think that they set out to "show everyone how smart" they were. I think we had some people bored with the SOS. Heck, I was one of them and this thing really kept me entertained this week.

In the "People make Mistakes" Department:
I made some remarks involving ego and condescension that were....wrong. As I said before, none of the Drollhouse 12 have ever "snubbed" me or done anything but write articles to motivate me to become involved in a discussion.

Winsome Cowboy and I don't always agree, but he has a cool way of disagreeing that I look forward to reading. The others are the same way - and sometimes it pisses me off - oh well. I realized the spoof when I read the "Am I a Dirty Old Woman?" article and laughed my ass off.

And I do feel like I "got smarter" this week. Now, I don't know if it was this discussion or the fact that I found an extra hole in my head that I plugged with duct tape, but let's just say that I increased my Emotional Intelligence by exercising a long-neglected Compassion muscle in my head. (some of you have cells in your head - I have muscles, sorry)

But if you're actually going to try and ban sarcasm here - you're all going to be very pissed off at me. Sarcasm is one of the core products and services that I offer.

Oh and before I forget - One individual that I have been very impressed with during this incident was Ms Cyprah. She said her piece, felt that the spoof was wrong, felt that it included a little nepotism or elitism, but left it at that. She didn't try to ram her opinion down anyone's throat. That's classy and a good example for all of us to follow.

I've been meaning to call that to everyone's attention before now, but now's just as good a time as any. (Not that she needs MY approval or anything) But her attitude helped my "meds" kick in as mentioned in the first paragraph. So I've gone full circle - back to Killfile's point.

I say FREE THE DROLLHOUSE 12!!!!

Noah, we have the t-shirt!

DirtClod88,

That's not a comment. That's an article in the wrong place. Really. Put it up.

People are so worried about what new people think of this. Everyone should read this.

Thanks.

Noah, we have the t-shirt!

Take a look at the header in my column.

DirtClod88, thanks for your very interesting assessment of what happened which seemed honest and sincere. I found it very informative. The change of heart means one can only appreciate your feelings even more.

As to your comment about me:

She said her piece, felt that the spoof was wrong, felt that it included a little nepotism or elitism, but left it at that. She didn't try to ram her opinion down anyone's throat. That's classy and a good example for all of us to follow.

Wow! That is such unexpected praise. What can I say to such generosity? I am gobsmacked by it because I am simply being myself and reacting from the heart. I learnt two things a long time back which have guided my life:

a. Always be yourself. Not everyone will like you for it, but they will always know where you stand.
b. Never judge anyone smugly because you have not shared their journey or walked in their shoes.

I love the Vine because I have made some awesome friends on it, but sometimes we have to be outside an event to see its true impact and I have been fortunate to be in just such a position. It has been fascinating following both sides while understanding why each section of the community feels the way it does. Not a good time just now for us but, I daresay, hopefully, we'll all come through better for it.

(Not that she needs MY approval or anything)

Wrong, I do need your approval or reinforcement, DirtClod88, simply because every one of us needs each other at some point in time. It's when we start pretending that we are self-sufficient and above others that we are likely to come unstuck and be found wanting.

Thanks again for that amazing affirmation. I feel truly humbled by it but also pleased that my words were of value to you. Just keep on doing what you do so well. :o)

I like you Ms CYPRAH. You sound very solid and mature. You are an anti-drollhead!

Thank you very much for that lovely compliment, Tonespeed. You are very kind. Welcome to the Vine. I hope you have a really great time and I am delighted to be your friend, thanks for asking. :o)

thank you. catch you later.

DirtClod and Ms Cyprah and Tonespeed, great comments. Good perspectives.

Off to go read Dirtclod's article

'Dennis made a powerful statement in Post 21.1. Nobody has the right to keep beating up on him from this point forward'

I suppose I can go along with this idea. I had an article posted up about The Prank, complete with cartoons, but when I figured everyone was hip to the message, and I got the idea it wouldn't happen in future, I deleted it.

But don't ask me to buy a Drollhouse t-shirt. It's not THAT funny.

But don't ask me to buy a Drollhouse t-shirt. It's not THAT funny.

:(

They're only available to members at this point.

We're elitist that way, you know.

Is alcohol considered food?

Is alcohol considered food?

Wasn't Guiness invented so that poor coal miner's could get a few calories while drinking each night.

alcohol can be a meal

Make sure to click "All of Newsvine," ok?

Actually, Calvin specifically requested that those posting articles about this topic not click "All of Newsvine".

oops. Sorry.

Right. When you put it that way, I have to agree 100% with you.

Cheers!

If you listen to Killfile long enough, Paddy, you'll agree with everything he says. He's just that smart. :)