Thanks To Palin, It's All About Abortion Now

Who's Obama Osama?

Look at the Gallup poll on a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/110002/Will-Abortion-Issue-Help-Hurt-McCain.aspx"> pro-choice / pro-life .

Surely the race is all over. We might as well pack up our Kit-bags & wait till what is it November the 5th?? Guy Fawkes Day !

My second is it was a smart move, an attempt to get Hillary supporters to vote for someone of their gender.

So essentially what McCain is doing is removing the burden of choice from all these poor confused women?
We all know that only a man can make a decision, the politics should be left to them.

I'd have to wager that women simply aren't going to be conned by this cynical move:
McCain, or his advisors, saw that there were women, who wanted to vote for Hillary,
who now had no Hillary to vote for.

Shifting their support to a different party just because the vice president would be in posession of a vagina makes no sense.

To use an analogy: it's like salads in Mc Donalds.
People who eat in Mc Donalds don't usually eat salads, and people who eat salads wouldn't go out of their way to go to Mc Donalds. Sure it looks good on a poster, and maybe people will feel better that this injustice in the world has been righted, but it'll change nothing.

The women that would vote for Hillary would do so because it was Hillary and what she stood for not simply that she was a woman. This is pandering to women every where and we are a lot smarter than some men give us credit for and women vote in higher numbers than men. Obama/Biden have the experience to get the US back as the true leader of the world and get our economy, jobs and healthcare back on the right track for all Americans. John McCain is acting out another SNL fantasy as a "ladies man". Disgusting!

david, it didn't say it would work - i said in political terms it was a smart move.

to use your mcdonalds analogy if you know there's a craving for a partocilar salad at the business do you introduce another burger or do you introduce a salad and hope people will be more excited about the presence of the salad than notice the differences between the two salads.

btw have you been spying on me - i often wifi from mcdonalds on weekend nites and i have a sudden craving for a mcdonalds.

Unlike Obama in Illinois, she has turned the corruption in Alaskan politics around.

Except for the current investigation into her own ethic "lapses" you might be right. Of course Obama wasn't Governor of Illinois and the biggest load of corruption around these parts involved the Republican Governor George Ryan. He was run out of the state on a rail.

On July 31, when CNBC asked Palin about the possibility of being selected as McCain's running mate, she said this:

"As for that V.P. talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?'

It is traditional for a Vice-Presidential candidate to have at least some notion on how the job goes. Especially true if you know you are already under consideration.

TZ83

That's an excellent point. Obama talks and talks about how he is post-partisan yet he's never gone gone against the Democratic leadership on a controversial issue. Palin knocked off an incumbant Republican governor by running an anti-corruption campaign and supported the insurgent Republican who tried to defeat Republican Representative Don Young, the sterotypical Congressional sleaze ball. She's made her name by fighting for what's right, regardless of party politics.

Obama has never stood up to the Daley machine or Governor Rod Blagovich, who will probably be indicted soon enough. You can search his record in vein for any inititive that would have helped to clean up the cesspool of corruption that is Illinois and Chicago politics. Anyone familliar with Illinois will know that Obama's refusal to support the reform Democratic candidate for the Cook County board speaks volumes about his relationship with Daley's machine. For those of you unfamilliar with Chicago politics, the croynism and nepotism of the Daley regime puts Cheney and Halliburton to shame.

Obama's talks about doing the things Palin has already done.

Palin knocked off an incumbant Republican governor by running an anti-corruption campaign and supported the insurgent Republican who tried to defeat Republican Representative Don Young, the sterotypical Congressional sleaze ball. She's made her name by fighting for what's right, regardless of party politics.

Obama has knocked off party incumbents in Chicago for not following the law. :) In fact, people keep trying to spin it that he was "playing dirty" for insuring that that were following the rules.

Obama has knocked off party incumbents in Chicago for not following the law. :) In fact, people keep trying to spin it that he was "playing dirty" for insuring that that were following the rules.

Yeah Obama use the same tactics in his 96 election that whites used on blacks in the 1960's to get everyone else thrown off the ticket. If an 'i' wasnt dotted a "t' wasnt crossed they had black voter signatures thrown out. He was running against other community organizers not the party machine. Dont forget his buddy Rezko either who gets sentenced 10 days before the general election for 16 counts of influenece peddling. I dont know about you arcane but I dont have anyfriends facing 16 counts of influence peddling, do you?. I bet most people don't.

Yes Obama's masterful use of perfectly legal 'technicalities' was masterful but I predict as this gets more traction in the black community, and it is, by the way! He will find much of the black vote walking away. They didnt like those tactics in the 1960's and they don't like them now.

His 96 campaign just proves Obama is an egomaniac who will do or say antything to get elected including getting black voters signatures thrown out when they support his competition.

Obama has some real fine morals, arcane!

Mcgovern, Obama didn't throw people out because "an i wasn't dotted or a t wasn't crossed". I don't even know why I just bothered to reply to this. lol

totaly around... I mean, her only corruption has been to attempt to get her former brother-in-law fired from the state police, and when the supervisor refused, she fired the supervisor.

you ignorant fool -- at least learn to spell (hell, this site even has spell check) if you want to insult someone.

Keep the conversation on topic and personal attacks out of this thread.

That's not her only corruption! Turns out her husband Todd had a staffer fired because the staffer was dating a married friend of Todd's. And guess what? The Governor's executive privilege doesn't apply to the emails her husband sent!!

Grab some marshmallows, this one's going to heat up.

She is currently under investigation by her state, by both Democrats and Republican for abuse of her power

Drill here, Drill now!!! Does this sound familiar??????????? It's not only about abortion. John McCain is hoping that her stance on getting to the oil will get him some votes to back up that pandering stance he took prior to the convention. She, who is a gun-tototin member of the NRA and her favorite meal is moose. Maybe some of the deer will be spared, and there will be moosehead antlers over the fireplace instead of deer antlers. You know how a weak few jump on the bandwagons making the most noise.

She is currently under investigation by her state, by both Democrats and Republican for abuse of her power

I wonder how much of a bullet she dodges if elected? Does this abuse have ethical and criminal concerns, or just ethical?

They say she has stopped corruption. But we don't know anything about this lady. Before she was picked for VP McCain had only met her twice in six months. Americans have known Barack far longer than Sarh. Also 18 million people voted for Barack, McCain alone nominated Sarah Palin and he has only met her twice in six months before making her VP. I have heard from people from Alaska who say she hasn't done squat and some people say good things about her. Of course on the first week we are only going to hear mostly good news about this lady because the only people who know about her are those in Alaska and a hand full of GOP members. This lady has two months to explain to America who she is. I have heard her give Obama good remarks, now she wants to say he is taking everyone in the wrong direction. Of course she operated a balanced budget in Alaska, every governor operates a balanced budget as a matter of fact in most states it is illegal not to. The federal budget is nothing like the state budget. She says she was against the road to no where, but she doesn't say initially she was for it. Also If she is pro-choice I wonder what the social conservatives are going to think of her and how they were lied to. I also think she seems kind of wishy washy because before she was nominated she said one thing know she saying another (like most politicians). Also take note of how every time someone in the media or from the dems says something about them they are labeled sexist. How come she gets to play the gender card and Obama can't play the race card. And how come she can come on stage and basically say vote for me cause I got the right parts and Barack can't say vote for me because I'm black. The truth is we need to know more about Sarah Palin. She may be a fine woman in truth I sort of like the lady, just not for VP.

http://enygma.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/01/1814381-disclosures-on-palin-raise-questions-on-vetting-process

Money quote:
Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin's background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice.

Obama FINALLY got on board after letting others make the decision for him. Repubs were always in support.

Obama FINALLY got on board after letting others make the decision for him. Repubs were always in support.

That's a complete utter $*%*ing lie. The Bush administration opposed the pipeline back in 2003 because his "Big Oil" cronies were going to be excluded from the bidding process.

Incidentally, this is a press release from her office which you just know is going to become key in the campaign, as she sounds prety pro-obama's energy policy.

Obama's energy policy is the policy Repubs were pushing before Democrats Pelosi and Reid blocked the vote and adjourned EARLY for a 5 week recess.

That is typical of Obama's "policies" (or lack thereof) 26 of the 28 pieces of legislation he introduced were handed to him form OTHER legislators because of their insignificance. Anfd he even voted against 7 of them.

Palin is a good choice for this ticket. She brings youth, the courage to stand up to the "good ol' boy club", and has actually succeeded at accomplishing the things that Obama can only talk about.

Uh... no, all the points in his energy policy have been Democratic planks on their platform going back as far as 2000. Obama added Nuclear power to it which is something the Republicans want, and is a pragmatic choice

you are criticizing the guy for being a pragmatic politician and making choices based on what is a good idea rather than ideology?

Picture linky [alternate].

Thanks - just what I needed to finish this satire attempt.

Sarah Palin for United States Veep is a prime example of MISSDIRECTION

And McCain fell for it.
It reminds me of the hypnotist (Hillary)
who tries to in trance you (Loyal Democrats & Leaning Independent/Republican voters)
and the man in the back row (McCain)
who is really insignificant,
is actually stuck on the stop watch ,
and ends up being the Duck.
But remember, Palin kills animals with helicopters.

Now I know that Obama will get my vote!!!

The Satire Continues:

Sarah Palin for United States Veep is a prime example of MISSDIRECTION

And McCain fell for it.
It reminds me of the hypnotist (Hillary)
who tries to in trance you (Loyal Democrats & Leaning Independent/Republican voters)
and the man in the back row (McCain)
who is really insignificant,
is actually stuck on the stop watch ,
and ends up being the Duck.
But remember, Palin kills animals with helicopters.

Now I know that Obama will get my vote!!!

Wow, this is almost exactly the same SPAM that some (now deleted) jerk spread around here last week. And what a Koin-ka-dink that you just signed up to the vine and this is your first post.

Amen!
Just another example of McCain's womanizing. Sadly, she (Palin) hasn't a clue as to what is actually going on behind the scenes--she's an also-ran-beauty-queen. Sad day for her when she realizes she's been used, chewed-up, spit-out, thrown under the bus, and I, for one, will be surprised if she even stays in politics after this is over.
At least McCain's choice in this will ensure that Roe v. Wade remains in full force. He just threw the election!

Amen!
I too feel patronized by McCain.
By the time the Republicans realize their mistake, it'll be way too late. Er, no, it's already too late!

Well McCain's choice of VP solidified my vote!!! I am excited & happy. She stands for most of everything I wanted in a President. I don't feel patronized one bit. Thank God that Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton!!!!! I have never liked Hillary Clinton. She is too masculine. She has never stood for anything I believed in. I don't agree about Sarah Palin being diametrically opposed to the most important women's issues of today. I think she's right on the button with her views. And we won't discover that she is no Hillary Clinton on election day. As soon as I read about her I was 100% sure she was no Hillary Clinton! And once again I thank God she is NOT!

Absolutely. The idea that this women, with less than 2 years in the state of Alaska, compares or is in anyway a substitute for Hillary, is a horrific insult to both Hillary Clinton and her supporters. This just clarifies my opinion of Republicans, they think we are stupid and will just vote for any woman. I am so very insulted by this transparent and very off-base attempt to get all of us Hilary supporters. It is not going to work, not for me at least. Following Obama's amazing speech and this pandering choice, my vote goes to Obama.

McCain and Republicans, time to actually catch up to the 21st Century. You have no chance this year.

But She Was A Beauty Queen A True Celebrity!!! You Have To Vote For Her Or You Wont Be Popular!!

What is patronizing to me, is that Hillary Clinton thinks that a woman of this generation must believe that having a baby is an obstacle to ones freedom and success, that is disgusting and sickening to me. I was not going to vote for McCain until Friday when he announced his selection for VP. Please don't assume that everyone woman wants to chop their child up and joined forces with women's liberation, I wish it would have stayed the way it was. But liberals don't understand education and training. It would have been better to educate men on their roles as good husbands, leaders and providers, not try to eliminate them because they made some poor choices in how they treated women. That is not empowerment and its definitely not who I am. Please speak for yourself. My conservative girlfriends rejoiced at McCains selection, remember every women is not trying to abandon their roles and hate men.

Well she's wrong, because I see several women on this post that does not feel they have to have freedom over their bodies to be empowered. And I am definitely one of those women and so is Sarah.

By your choice to believe that God does not want you to have an Abortion, you are being empowered. You are empowered to follow what you think your God wants from you but you would remove that empowerment from other women just because you have already made a choice?

one does not need to believe in God to understand that to kill an inncoent human being is wrong. In abortion, you talk abut "empowerment..." but in reality abortion is the powerful bullying those without power.

Killfile: From what basis do YOU say a mother is a "person?" Please don't tell me "common sense" or "the law," or "the consitution," because in the 1800's blacks were not full "persons" under the Constitution, according to the US Supreme Court. As a matter of fact, a corporation can be a "person." Denying reality by playing around with words and their definitions does not change reality.

If a lump of cells is a person, then people better stop damaging their cells. there is a genocide going on.

What about the ability to turn a skin cell into a fertilized ovum? They can do that now. so every cell is precious?

From what basis do YOU say a mother is a "person? Please don't tell me "common sense" or "the law," or "the consitution,"

I hate that I might be putting words in Killfile's mouth, but I guess, given the limitations you have arbitrarily (and very oddly) placed on the definition of personhood, I guess I have to go with:

Genesis 1:26-27 (New Revised Standard Version)

26 Then God said, 'Let us make humankind* in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth,* and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.'
27So God created humankind* in his image,
in the image of God he created them;*
male and female he created them.

When an egg and a sperm meet, they each contain half of the chromosomes contained in the other cells of the bodies of the woman or the man. When they unite they become one cell. NOTHING NEEDS TO BE ADDED to that one cell to make it human. That cell is already a completely NEW AND INDIVIDUAL PERSON. That one cell needs nothing but nourishment and a safe place to grow and develop. Everything that makes that new person who and what they are is contained in that one, primary cell. EVERYTHING! That cell is neither mother, nor father, but the perfect union of each into ONE FLESH, ie. the child. "...and the two shall become one flesh..."

What happens after the two cells of mother and father meet? That one primary cell begins to multiply by dividing. Each new cell multiplies by dividing. Some mysterious power "programmed" into that primary cell tells cell clusters what to develop into, heart, lungs, head, eyes, fingers, toes .... Amazing!

Still, NOTHING NEEDS TO BE ADDED TO MAKE THIS LITTLE DEVELOPING BEING HUMAN. As it CONTINUES to develop nothing is added. The being is already human. Every gift of nature that the fully developed person will ever have is already present in that primary cell. At birth, nothing is added to make that little person more of a person. At age two nothing is added to make that person more person. At graduation, at twenty-one, at fifty, nothing is added to make that person more person.

Life begins at the union of the two cells of mother and father. That life is human life! If the offspring of a rat is rat, and the offspring of dog is dog, the offspring of a human is human.
A @!$%# has puppies? Any question about that? They are canine puppies. Still any questions?
In the @!$%#'s womb those are still canine puppies. They are canine puppies from the very beginning.

Now, a little zygote cannot live outside it's mother's womb where nature has designed that it be fed and sheltered. That doesn't make it part of the mother's body. If you abort the zygote, fetus, baby, (designations of development) you have not amputated anything off of the mother. But you have killed a total human being.

A fetus cannot live without food and shelter. A baby cannot live without food and shelter. A toddler cannot live without food and shelter. At thirty a person cannot live without food and shelter. We all need food and protection (shelter) to live. That's just the physical need. We also, from the very beginning, have psychological, emotional and spiritual needs.

A mother's womb should be the safest place in the world for a developing child. The Designer of the universe created it to be that way. Yet today, in many wombs, it is the most dangerous place for a child. In our society, children are disposable. They are inconvenient. They are "problems".

Why is it that to kill a child in the womb, even up to the point of birth, is acceptable, but if a pregnant woman is shot in the abdomen and the fetus is killed it is murder? Does the willingness of the mother to carry her child to term and to give birth determine that the child is a child?

If I determine that a person not human because I do not choose to like him, or what he does, can I kill him and call it a "termination" of a problem? Does what I think of him determine what or who he is? Thousands may think very differently of him. Does that make him any different than who he is? He is who and what he is regardless of anything anyone thinks or wants him to be. He is he. You are you. I am I. Child is child. An unborn human child is a person.

If I kill a person, it is murder.

VERY WELL SAID HARMONY!

killfile: you defy logic! No matter what stage of development a person is in: elderly, middle age, young adult, adolescent, child, toddler, infant, fetus, embryo... it's still the SAME PERSON going through different stages. You are no more or less human at one stage than another. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to get this. As one scientist said: if you are not a full human being at the moment of fertilization then somewhere along the line something would have to be added to you to make you a full human being, and he said that does not happen. In other words, you are a FULL HUMAN BEING from the moment of fertilization.

Killfile: you're refering to legal and societal practices but the MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC REALITY is that YOU are a FULL human being from the moment of fertilization. To deny that is to be in the same category of people who still think the world is flat. Instead of changing reality we need to change our practices to fit reality.

Killfile: I'm afraid that your denial of reality is beginning to force you to make some kooky statements. First of all, scientifically and medically a cancer cell is not a human being because, for one, it does not have 46 chromosomes. Plus, cancer cells "give birth" to cancer cells. A human bring, at the moment of fertilization, has 46 chromosomes..a human being. And human beings give birth to human beings. But Killfile: chimps and dolphins come closer to the "requirements" for personhood than an unborn baby or even a newborn child???? You're willing to go to this EXTREMELY extremist position just to justify your erroneous idea that a human being in the mother is not a "person?" You are proving by that statement how arbitrary the definition of "person" is. This is scary!

Killfile: human beings give birth to human beings. Period. No need for predictions there. Your attempt at "scientific" googly-glob only further proves you are in deep denial. With all due respect for your victory over cancer, a cancer patient does not a scientist make. Also, on a personal note, I'm glad you survived cancer but your struggle should have made you more wise: you should be the first to defend human life.

Killfile: there is no prediction of the future when it comes to the unborn. They are human, always was and always will be. Please give me an example where a human mother gave birth to anything other than a human baby. I bet you it's 0% No reason to predict there...prediction is not necessary. May I suggest that the abortion crowd is the one practicing eugenics. Pro-choicers are basically saying that if you do not meet up to my arbitrary standard of what a "person" means, you are not one of us and I can destroy you (sounds like Nazism, where Jews were considered to be subhuman and parasites, or again, like US slavery when blacks were called animals and the dregs of humanity). To dehumanize someone is the first step to legitimizing their victimization. I also call your attention to the fact that 90% of women who find out they are caring a Down Syndrome child will abort that child...sounds eugenic to me. Pre-Implantation Genetic Diagnosis screens out the imperfect children and only the "perfect" are implanted...sounds eugenic to me. The "pro-choice: mentality has led us down the eugenic road. Lastly, it was Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood (and a contemporary of Hitler) who wanted "less children from the unfit and more from the fit." Her family planning facilities (over 800 in the US) are placed primarily in minority neighborhoods under the guise of "health.." sounds eugenic to me. I'm sorry Killfile, but actions speak louder than words and the actions of pro-choicers are quite loud.

I am sorry, Killfire, the conclusions you use are non-reasonable.
A dark mind cannot see light.
A weak will cannot choose good.
"I set before you life and death. Choose life."

Precisely! I too am kinda offended that women are sorta being portrayed to be no-issue voters. Oh, I guess I'll vote for the team with ovaries, who cares about policy, voting records or ideology? Sheesh!

Who I vote for is dependent on my menstrual cycle:

If I'm PMSing and hate the world, I vote Republican.
If I'm ovulating and love the world, I vote Democrat.

/sarcasm - please don't hurt me

Miss Dev lol! Even on my worst day I couldn't bring myself to vote for these folks.

pookie's momma: It'll be interesting to see how many people feel like us and if this strategy will bite them in the butt.

Who I vote for is dependent on my menstrual cycle.

Not to get too personal, but where do you fall in the begining of the month :-)

good 1, that was fuuny!

Ovaries haven't got a thing to do with anything. Palin just happens to have more intelligence and common sense in her little finger than husseien obamamama will ever have. His fiasco the other night was just a big hoopla of more of the same crap we've been hearing from him all along...nothing!! So, what's his big change to the White House...the fact that he's black? What exactly has he said he was going to change? I thought we were all watching the same program the other night, ie. Dems Covention. I have been a democrat all my life, but this guy is a joke. And what the hell has he done and who the hell is he? I never heard of him until his run for the Presidency. Now all of a sudden he's someone important..give me a break

Though you have not quite come out in said it, it is abundantly clear that you believe that "a child who will likely never work, serve or vote" should have been aborted. That is a description that also fits most post-natal (that means "already born") people with Downs Syndrome. It also fits many, many other people. Do you mean to suggest that these post-natal people should also be aborted? I didn't think so. I guess a person is not a person until he or she slides through that birth canal (but what about c-section? Does the magic rub off somehow with proximity to the vagina?)

Your assessment of my unspoken opinion on whom, if anyone, "should" be aborted is incorrect. My point is if Gov. Palin feels entitled to take the risk that she did, I insist that she allow other women the same right to choose. How can she speak credibly to teenage girls or young women about preventing pregnancy (thereby reducing abortions), if she lacks the judgment, humility or self-control to do the same?

What in ignorant judgemental thing to say! Are you saying you don't respect her choice to have another child? Are you saying that in finding out her child wasn't "perfect" by society's standards she should have killed it and adopted? Are you saying that child will have nothing to offer throughout life - at least by your standards? Your comment makes me question how much value you contribute to society, but that doesn't mean you don't have the right to exist does it? You may see Palin as a poor choice for VP - I see it as an awesome opportunity to have a woman who respects life, family values, the environment, and has a successful career as a HUGE POSITIVE role model!

"Are you saying you don't respect her choice to have another child? "

See, CHOICE, get it? Ms. Palin wants to take that choice away from all other women.

Ms. Palin was McCain's choice not only to solidify the crazy Christian vote but to try to take women away from voting for Obama as if we think only with our extra X chromosome. It may true by reading some of the above comments but certainly a majority of women will see this VP pick for what it is.

And as one of the above posters noted, Ms. Palin is certainly no HRC, not even close.

Does an educated, successful business woman who fails to prevent her fifth pregnancy at the age of 43, resulting in the birth of a child who will likely never work, serve or vote, have the standing to comment on reproductive rights for other women?

this actually begs the question of judgment. 43 is on the tail end of having healthy offspring (yes, i know there are plenty of exceptions) but with 4 children already, one wonders why a caring mother would take such a risk?

I really think it is bad taste to attack her judgment on having a child. No one uses good judgment when deciding to have a child. You can point to many other bad judgment calls though regarding the pregnancy... she flew to Texas when she was ready to pop.... her water broke before she gave a speech there and she gave the speech, she then flew all the way back to Alaska before attempting to get the kid out of her.

THAT is bad judgment.

Related to this, I don't get why the Republicans are attempting to make a big deal about her not aborting the baby. If you see a child with Downs, the parent knew about it before that child's development beyond the 1st trimester. That parent chose to keep it. That is a lot of parents and makes the choice pretty unspectacular. For our second child we were told it was likely he had downs. We continued along with out skipping a beat with the pregnancy because Abortion is not an option for us (I am pro-choice BTW). Our son ended up not having Downs. Can I be Vice President now?

You've got to be kidding me, right?! Carole, you appear to be saying that this woman should not have gotten pregnant. Who's really "gonzo" here?? She has reproductive rights, too, and how dare you sit in judgement of her. A Down's Syndrome child has just as much right to be born as anyone else. Plenty of non-challenged people don't work, serve, or vote, and unfortunately, my tax dollars end up subsidizing them. I am impressed that the Palin family valued the life of this child enough to bring it into the world.

Stef,

Why are you impressed? Hundreds of thousands of families make that choice every year.

Liberals just don't get it. They are such elitist, so prideful and arrogant. If Mrs. Palin decided she would have 8 Down Syndrome children, why should anyone look down on her or think that she took a risk? But this is what those in promotion of the sexual revolution believe, that babies are risk? They are like the stock market, if you have a good stock invest in it but if not sell or in this case kill.

That is sad.

Who are you responding to Mary?

Black teen pregnancies? A "crisis" in black America . White teen pregnancies? A "blessed event."

Killfile, when and what did you get pierced? Otherwise, that's you to a T (well, maybe not the Hollywood loving part).

But abortion is the one that will lose the election for McSame. How will Palin appeal to the Clinton crowd now?

Dems Win!!! :D

McSame

Can we please stop altering the names of candidates we disagree with? It comes off as really, really immature and pointless. Does anyone really think utilizing kindergarten tactics is going to encourage people to vote for Obama?

Not picking on you Shantonu, I've just seen this in various iterations all over the place on Newsvine and it's getting old.

Let's not forget to mention Obama's support for partial birth abortions as well. Ever seen any graphics of that procedure??

Barak Obama's stance on late term abortion:

On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother,

I love how the Pro-choice crowd has to lie. Both sins are equal in God's eyes pro-lifers... perhaps you should rethink your strategy. it would be ironic of you ended up in hell for the lies you tell to protect a fetus.

Killfile - I have issues with using abortion as birth control, or to abort becuase of down's syndrome, or "just cuz the baby's not wanted". I don't presume to know more doctor's and I do agree that there may be EXTREME circumstances where abortion MIGHT be a viable option. I also have issues with minors having access to abortion without requirements of parental notification.

I have strong spiritual beliefs regarding life. I know some if not most on this thread won't agree with those beliefs and that's fine. That's their choice. It is not up to me or a doctor (who is also human by the way) to presume to know the course of a human beings life. If a birth is going that badly and the child is aborted, who are we to decide if it was the mother's time or the child's time. That child could have been the one to grow up and achieve world peace, or develop a cure for cancer, or....

I have three lovely children (two of them adopted at birth). Just as I was adopted at birth. My sister and brother-in-law spent three months in China to adopt my beautiful niece when she was 6 months old. I shudder to think not having them because their mothers decided on abortion instead of adoption. There are other options birth control, adoption, abstinence, and accepting accountability for the responsibility of rearing the child.

1) almost no one use abortion as birth control (the connotation of "birth control" being repeated use)

2) take a look around, there are a lot of Down's kids and adults running around and every pregnant woman gets an alpha-beta protein test at the start of the pregnancy which tells them their likelihood of having a down's child growing inside them. It seems most people who get news that they have a down's child make the choice to keep the pregnancy

3)This is the most common reason that women have an abortion.

You may shutter to think what if someone chose to terminate your children before they were born, but that is that person's choice and that is something they will have to deal with once it is time for God to judge them.(if that is what they believe). Legislating a philosophy of when life starts in order to create a law against abortion prior to viability is wrong. You want to convince people to choose not to have an abortion, then council them. you want to prevent women from being placed in the situation to have an abortion, then educate them about ways to keep from becoming pregnant, including condom use, pregnancy control pills(Birth control pills), and abstinence. If you want the latter option to be the one that is chosen more often, then talk to young girls and arm them with strong self confidence and teach them about the gift that is giving virginity to your husban, etc, etc.

Killfile, what a strong argument you have for abortion! There are so many woman running around with their father's babies inside their bellies. What a lame attempt to get others to accept your twisted sense of this issue!

Face the facts, using abortion as a form of birth control is completely and utterly wrong! And that is precisely what abortion is. If you don't want a child, try crossing your legs. NOW THAT is Pro-Choice!

If abortion is not wrong, why does Planned Parenthood employ counselors?

Feeling bad means you did something wrong?

Behind My Screen, Feeling bad does not necessarily mean you did something wrong. I feel bad for the millions of exterminated babies, but I was not involved in their deaths.

Do you know that most people who kill others feel bad about it? Taking an innocent human life is wrong!

----

Killfile, Your rebuttals are lame.

Watching a murderer gun down your friends and needing counseling, being raped and needing counseling, going to war and needing counseling, etc. have nothing to do with killing innocent babies. There is nothing wrong with needing counseling for traumatic events.

But if there is nothing wrong with abortion, why do so many women need counseling after killing their children? It should be "eat breakfast, go get abortion, stop at Starbucks for Cafe Grande with soy hold the cream, go babysit my nephew, go relax in front of fire at home, etc." I don't need counseling when I go to Starbucks. Do you?

So Bob, how is employing counselors indicate something is wrong if there are many other instances that counselors are employed?

I think that you need to go a little deeper in your thinking because as of right now, you are not producing anything that can be considered evidence for its "wrongness"

If abortion is not wrong, why does Planned Parenthood employ counselors?

Killfile, you missed the most obvious one - postpartum depression.

Giving birth is bad too then :-)

I think most Anti-Abortionists do not realize that Planned Parenthood has standard OB/GYN services as well.

Behind My Screen, Does Starbucks employ counselors for people regretting paying $5 for a cup of coffee?

I don't feel bad when I go grocery shopping. If abortion is just another thing to do during the day, why the need of counseling?

Lets just assume that the mother was having sex with a man and not an animal, and that the "fetus" (it really does not matter what you call it, it is a human life) will become a living, breathing human being. So, in your view, is there anything wrong with killing a baby?

What does starbucks have to do with this? We have pointed out many instances where counselors are employed and by your logic, all of those people must have done something bad, or the agency involved must be involved in doing bad things.

If you want to be convincing you need to find something that has no "cross boundary" application.

I think most Anti-Abortionists do not realize that Planned Parenthood has standard OB/GYN services as well.

Behind My Screen, The NRA also has a great health insurance plan.

Let me put this in simple, easy to understand terms. Abortion is murder.

Uhh...

It seems difficult for you to understand what everyone is saying to you.

1) Counselors are employed by many other groups for things you would not consider as Bad activities. That renders your point about counselors at Planned Parenthood impotent.

2) Planned Parenthood has standard OB/GYN health services for delivering babies. Mothers who have postpartum depression need to talk to someone and Planned Parenthood is there with counselors.

3) Asserting a philosophy about abortion does not make it so.

Let me put this in simple, easy to understand terms. Abortion is murder.

So in vitro clinics are mass murder facilities (throwing thousands of unused embryos in the trash annually), and countless sexually active women are guilty of manslaughter, since early-term miscarriages are more common than successful pregnancies and largely go entirely unnoticed.

A miscarriage is not a d-e-l-i-b-e-r-a-t-e action. I guess if in-vitro clinics do that you would be correct in your assessment, Jack. Human life is human life (frozen or not).

BMS, People that need counseling are not going to a counselor because life is great and cheery. You are choosing to miss the obvious here. Why would someone feel bad after terminating a pregnancy?

Asserting a philosophy, huh? What about people who do after birth abortions? What do we call these people?

It should be "eat breakfast, go get abortion, stop at Starbucks for Cafe Grande with soy hold the cream, go babysit my nephew, go relax in front of fire at home, etc." I don't need counseling when I go to Starbucks. Do you?

...Have you ever met a woman? Nobody would do anything like that. You're talking like an abortion is something that all women do on the spur of the moment because it suits them. I don't care about the mechanics, or the number of weeks or whatever other legalese you want to surround the issue with - that's not why I'm commenting.

Any abortion is going to be higly traumatic, whether you're pro-choice or not.
Women get abortions, 9 times out of 10, because they have to, or they see no other way out.
And to compare this issue to anything as passe as getting coffee is not only demeaning to the issue, women and the entire debate, but it's a little offensive to barristas.

Bob,

I think you are missing the point... just because someone feels bad does not make their behavior bad.

Giving birth can result in a woman feeling bad and needing counseling, does that make giving birth bad? Find another reason to label abortion as bad, the counselor issue and the feelings a woman has afterward is not it.

As to the after birth issue... I support laws that prevent abortion after the date of viability. prior to that, It is a philosophical position as to whether an embryo is a person.

David, you might want to read some of the previous comments. I was making a point. I don't think that getting an abortion is as easy as going out for a cup of coffee. I was stating something quite the opposite.

As to putting a woman in a bad position because of an unwanted pregnancy -- Too Bad! Is that the baby's fault? I know women who have had abortions, and they live with that guilt every day. Nobody HAS to get an abortion. There are SO many other options! There are plenty of people who want kids who can't have them. Adoption is a good Choice.

Do you know that the Roe in Roe v Wade has completely changed her stance on abortion? Talk about irony! She recognizes it for what it it -- Murder / Infanticide.

----

Ah yes, my good friend BMS, time to get off the counseling point. It's obviously above your head.

Now to the philosophical question. I'm assuming here that the woman was having sex with a human man. Therefore, at the point of conception the resulting life-form will be a human baby. Now maybe you just don't see the value of life, period. But somehow I doubt that. You are probably the first to get on the band-wagon of saving a murderer's life when he is about to be executed for killing an innocent person. Funny how you pro-choicers just don't see the irony in that one!

So, back to the philosophical question. Whether you think life begins at conception or at the first breath (meaning the fetus is dead in the womb until birth), you are stating that it is pure chance that the woman is going to have a human baby. Do you even see how asinine your philosophical argument is? If it weren't so pathetic, it would be funny.

Killfile, I totally agree with you now. What a compelling response! Why have I never seen it that way before? "It's not!" Wow! You got me with THAT one! How can I ever refute that kind of logic???? Is it murder when an adult kills a child?

Chances are, if the fetus does not die of natural causes (or an accident or someone punching the mother in the gut), it will become a human life. I don't know of any instance in the history of the world when a human man and woman having sex produced a non-human life.

Further, you probably see people that are not "normal", as being less human. Is a mentally-challenged person or a quadriplegic (like Steven Hawkings) less human than you and therefore should be aborted? Do they not offer anything worth while to society? Careful, your answer could put you right up their with the likes of Hitler.

I wonder what Jesus would think about the death penalty and torture, Mrs. Palin???

Aine said someone should ask

Chello, considering Jesus is God, I'll let you figure the death penalty portion of your question. Hell is a very real place -- That is one heck of a Death Penalty; don't you think?

TRJ, it's almost as much hypocrisy as a Pro-Abortionist who finds it wrong to execute a convicted murderer.

Chello, considering Jesus is God, I'll let you figure the death penalty portion of your question. Hell is a very real place -- That is one heck of a Death Penalty; don't you think?

Except that God doesn't kill you. God just threatens bad stuff after you die.

TRJ, it's almost as much hypocrisy as a Pro-Abortionist who finds it wrong to execute a convicted murderer.

I'd support the death penalty (and actually supported it for quite a while) if there weren't so many exonerations of death row inmates.

Considering that Jesus came to fulfill the Law, and not eradicate it, I would guess that the whole 'eye for an eye' thing is still in effect. Remember God created the Law, not us.

Tell you what,

why not practice your law amongst you Christians and leave the real world out of it.

I owe you an apology. I let my passion regarding defending innocent human life get the best of me. I guess I just cannot understand how anyone can see that it is OK to take the life of innocent humans or "potential humans". Where is the compassion?

Why do we get so upset when a gunman walks into a school or a mall and executes innocent people, but why is it not the same case for those who cannot defend themselves?

I suggest anyone considering aborting the life of your child whom you know will be born disabled to watch this video (below). It is not disturbing in any way, but shows that all human life is important and spurs many "abled" body people to greater achievements.

Google "YouTube - Dick & Rick Hoyt". It's worth watching and extremely inspiring.

You are probably talking to about 1,000 people there. Abortion is already very rare, and those aborting because of a non-life ending problem that the baby has is very small.

That would be nice if it were true. The fact of it is that in American alone there are close to 1 million abortions every year.

Did you like the video? The story is very inspiring. Don't you think?

uhhh...

a million abortions a year, out of 150 - 200 million people having sex.

And my point about your audience is that most people who have abortions are not doing it because their child has some sort of congenital problem.

Oh, my mistake. It's only about 850,000. That's still a pretty big number there, Killfile. Anyhow, 1 is 1 too many.

Oh yeah, I forgot that, abortion, no military, and no success for individuals are all sacraments in your weird, liberal-fascist religion.

Reported as inflammatory.

Some nerve! Making abortion a major issue! Oh wait, it is a major issue!

Every year, we as a nation kill over 1.4 million innocent lives. Since Roe v Wade, we have successfully wiped out well over 40 million lives. But, it's the woman's choice... What a load!

Then to make it even a more sick act against humanity, so-called "Pro-Choicers" say late term abortions and the authorization of death of accidental survival of botched abortions is OK.

I think it is time to open the prison gates. There is no such thing as murder in this country! What's the difference of leaving killing a viable infant human life and a viable adult human life? If I'm ever up for murder charges, I'm going with the fact that I was just exercising my right to "late term abortion."

I must be one of those "right-wing nut-jobs" who finds the act of killing innocent babies as appalling and disturbing!

This is a MAJOR ISSUE, and it's time you Pro-Deathers realize that one day you will have a lot to answer for.

Damian: can't take the truth? Have to suppress the truth by reporting that statement as "inflammatory?" I thought the left likes "tolerance?" "free speech?"

Ian: PALIN =protecting unborn infants + standing up to the big oil companies = WIN!!!

OBAMA = keeping it legal to slaughter the unborn and allowing babies to die suffocating on a table after a failed abortion = LOSE!!!!!

But abortions okay...right?

Not saying it's right or wrong. Everyone's circumstances are different. However, if you are going to refer to yourself as "Pro-Life" than you should be Pro-Life in all areas, not just where it benefits your cause.

Abortion "okay," -- are you crazy?
Abortion is terrible. Worse than terrible. But the answer is not to criminalize women. The answer is to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Gov. Palin is a "leader" in a group called "Feminists for Life," and must have known the risk she was taking. It's completely irresponsible. She forfeited her moral authority to speak to teenagers and young adults about responsible reproduction. Choice begins before conception.

And as for running the country -- I would laugh but it's too scary. Our nation will not survive another term of religious extremists.

Carole, our nation was carved out of the forests and founded by religious extremists.

Thomas, the people that carved out the Western civilization culture we are based on today may have been religious extremists, but the people that founded this country were not.

Yes, actually... they were.

The puritans were very extreme in their beliefs.

true. James Town was the first permanent settlement....

Perhaps a better statement would be "those who founded this countries culture..."

Dawn,

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but virtually every recent conservative apointee to the supreme court has said at one time or another they believe Roe v. Wade should be overturned. Not weakened. Overturned. The next three justices to retire will be from the "liberal block", whatever that means. I don't know when it will happen, but I can pretty much guarentee you that if any of them retire and McCain happens to be president, they will be replaced with this type anti-Roe v. Wade conservative.

Roe v. Wade already is barely standing. Four of the nine justices (Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, & Alito) are on record being opposed to it. Not to weaken it. To eliminate it. Only Kennedy stands in the way, and he appears inclinde to severely restrict but not eliminate yet.

If you really think Roe v. Wade will survive a the next 8 years under a conservative presidency, you might be in for a surprise. Will such an overturning ban outright abortion in the US? No, it will become a state-by-state issue for now. Will the next republican congress try to criminalize abortion on a national level if Roe v. Wade is eliminated? I think you can bet on it.

Do you really want to go down that road?

Thank you Dawn, you are right-There are other issues than abortion-I for one would like to see more action by our government in caring for the elderly. Comparing the USA to other nations, our care for the elderly is horrible! But then that may stem from the fact that our care and concern for the unborn is just as horrible. Maybe we should stop focusing on our personal, selfish demands and concern ourselves with the welfare of those who can't defend themselves.

Thank you Dawn, you are right-There are other issues than abortion-I for one would like to see more action by our government in caring for the elderly. Comparing the USA to other nations, our care for the elderly is horrible! But then that may stem from the fact that our care and concern for the unborn is just as horrible. Maybe we should stop focusing on our personal, selfish demands and concern ourselves with the welfare of those who can't defend themselves.

Thank you Dawn, you are right-There are other issues than abortion-I for one would like to see more action by our government in caring for the elderly. Comparing the USA to other nations, our care for the elderly is horrible! But then that may stem from the fact that our care and concern for the unborn is just as horrible. Maybe we should stop focusing on our personal, selfish demands and concern ourselves with the welfare of those who can't defend themselves.

Thank you Dawn, you are right-There are other issues than abortion-I for one would like to see more action by our government in caring for the elderly. Comparing the USA to other nations, our care for the elderly is horrible! But then that may stem from the fact that our care and concern for the unborn is just as horrible. Maybe we should stop focusing on our personal, selfish demands and concern ourselves with the welfare of those who can't defend themselves.

Thank you Dawn, you are right-There are other issues than abortion-I for one would like to see more action by our government in caring for the elderly. Comparing the USA to other nations, our care for the elderly is horrible! But then that may stem from the fact that our care and concern for the unborn is just as horrible. Maybe we should stop focusing on our personal, selfish demands and concern ourselves with the welfare of those who can't defend themselves.

I'm assuming this will be deleted because of obscenity and disprespect towards Palin?

one thing I love about some of you "progressives" or "liberals:" you're all for freedom of speech as long as it agrees with you. Hypocrisy at the very least.

Really Tony? name one instance where we do not like freedom of speech.

Yes Behind, two of my comments were deleted and in no way were they even NEAR the disrespect you and others who agree with you have shown, especially to Palin. That's just on this forum, never mind in everyday life.

Yes Behind, two of my comments were deleted and in no way were they even NEAR the disrespect you and others who agree with you have shown, especially to Palin.

You've never seen the Newsvine Code of Honor, have you? It specifically prohibits personal attacks against other Newsviners. Read it sometime before waxing poetic about dern libruls, or presuming to use the Constitution as a pair of brass knuckles.

That's just on this forum, never mind in everyday life.

We have the power to delete verbal comments in real life? Time-traveling duct-tape gags?

Jack; my comments did not disrespect any person on vine. Check out your facts before you start babbling.

Tony,

you can be as disrespectful to any person in the news you like. The CoH does not allow you to disrespect other vine members. You can read it yourself, there is a link at the very bottom of every page.

Also, if you have a beef about your comment getting deleted, take it up with the newsvine staff. they can conduct a review and reinstate your comment if it is found to not be violating the CoH. As an added bonus to you, if it is found to have been deleted unjustly, Killfile gets a spanking for it as well. He is not above the law here. He has had his fair share of smack downs for certain things in the past (though not related to deletions as far as I know)

Check out your facts before you start babbling.

Kinda hard when the facts are no longer visible. I was simply reiterating that the Code of Honor has absolutely no bearing on a comment insulting Palin.

if it is found to have been deleted unjustly, Killfile gets a spanking for it as well.

This must be another RAV perk.

if it is found to have been deleted unjustly, Killfile gets a spanking for it as well.

This must be another RAV perk.

How kinky. Didn't know Killfile was into that kind of thing. Learn something new every day. To each his or her own.

Didn't know Killfile was into that kind of thing.

Neither did I.

Yep, that's the plan. If the republicans were to win the presidency then they would be responsible for cleaning up the mess from the last 8 years (or do a damn good job of blaming it on the democrats). If they give up the presidency this year, then the impossible task is left solely up to the democrats. Leaving the republicans a very good chance of getting the presidency and the congress back in 2012.

I hear she was a Radical Muslin and was trading arms to the Russian for caviar and she had and affair with Charlie Manson.

I heard that too.

So let me get this straight. McCain doesn't understand women and you know this because you understand McCain. Uh, OK . Now you therefore understand the issues and people with different opinions don't. OHHHH! Of course, I get it now! UMM HMMMM!

Therese - perhaps read your post again.
You've contradicted yourself to heck and back. You say Palin is a lightweight, and then suggest she's a heartless woman because she has child care for her children while she works. If she were male, would that even cross your mind? You just superglued a piece of glass back in the ceiling. Shame on you.
And, by the way, pro-life means before the baby is born, it has nothing to do with child care.

And, by the way, pro-life means before the baby is born, it has nothing to do with child care.

That would explain why anti-abortionists claim to care tremendously about fetuses, but don't give a rat's ass about children post-birth. If they did, you'd think they'd try to improve our foster care system, instead of treating it like a mystical nirvana of perfect responsibility.

If you're pre-born, you're fine; if you're pre-school, you're @!$%#ed.

You must be very ignorant of the pro-life movement. These comments are
totally projections.

Totally projections? What does that mean?

If you have any hope of being taken seriously, you might want to be careful about who you call ignorant around here.

That being said, I've heard that line from pro-lifers before--"you don't agree with us and you therefore mus be ignorant of our movement."

Nice try but no luck.

Now listen Jackie and Courtie: Your baseless and adolescent diatribes against pro-lifers gets a little old. I think you would LIKE to believe that pro-lifers don't care about the born, that way you can keep justifying to yourself the slaughter of the unborn. Even IF pro-lifers did NOTHING for the born, the slaughter of the unborn WOULD STILL BE WRONG.
But I hate to burst your little self-contained bubble, but "anti-abortionists" have done more than any other segment of society to provide for the born: I'm just going to give ONE example now: take the Catholic Church: it runs hospitals (many in poor neighborhoods); elementary and high schools (many in inner-cities); other medical clinics; homeless shelters; soup kitchens; youth centers; daycare centers; immigration assistance; higher education; foster care services; adoption services; housing assistance and even projects to build more housing; job training programs; homes for unwed mothers; counseling services; spiritual support services in all institutions including jails; homes for the aged; family support services,etc. AND THIS IS JUST ONE ANTI-ABORTION group!!!! Despite the failings of some of its leadership and people, it's one heck of an accomplishment ALL BECAUSE JESUS gave the command 2000 to do this!

Courts: just noticed something: Harmony did not call YOU ignorant, just YOUR KNOWLEDGE about the work of pro-lifers with the born. Sometimes when we see "red" our eyes can do tricks on us!

When John Cardinal O'Connor of New York and some of these other Cardinals and Bishops have experienced their pregnancies and their first labor pains and they've raised a couple of children on minimum wage then I'll be happy to hear what they have to say about abortion. I'm sure it'll be interesting, enlightening truly.

Courts: your response tells me that you are not open to hearing about the facts. Sounds like you are a disgruntled Catholic...there's been plenty of those around...started with Judas - He also could not stand the "scandal" of the cross. He couldn't take Christ's teachings.. You don't have a problem with "the Church" but with God Himself. The Church does not make up teachings but only passes on what it received. A Catholic or not, I hope you can come to understand that it is never ok to kill an unborn child..never.
p.s. newsflash: you speak of cardinal O'Connor in the present tense...He died in 2000.

You don't want to talk about facts. You want to talk about religious dogma. And that's fine but welcome to a country where you don't have the right to enforce your religious beliefs on my body.

Nevertheless, here's a fact for you: Judas wasn't Catholic; Judas was Jewish.

And nice try but you're way off base on the "disgruntled Catholic," "problem with God" rift. You want to try again with "Inaccurate Speculation" for $200?

That being said, if you'd bothered to click on the link that you apparently missed not once but twice (must be the "red" in your eyes playing tricks on you) you'd notice that both post 30.4 and 30.9 were quotes from George Carlin (who was, incidentally, Catholic until he reached the age of reason) that dated before Cardinal O'Connor's passing in 2000.

You can hope all you wish but you are utterly incapable of presenting any evidence that would suggest that your religious beliefs as to when life begins have any grounding in fact whatsoever. You say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process.

Court, court, court: the question of when human life begins is not dogmatic but scientific. To deny that a new human being begins his/her existence at fertilization is to be in the same category of those who still believe the world is flat.

Judas was Catholic? Well that explains... something... :\

well ,Miss Diagnosed, Judas, being one of the Twelve is considerd to be one of the first bishops of the church...a bishop who betrayed, but a bishop none the less. You miss, the only Christian community that can trace itself back to the Apostles is the Catholic one.

Killfile, please, your ignorance and denial of reality is beyond me. You can't accept reality for whatever reason. The reason why there are laws is to protect the innocent from people like you. It may take a while to regain protection for the unborn but I'm sure it'll come. I hope you wake up because ignorance is a terrible thing for all concerned. I hope that one day you too will realize that the world is no longer flat.

Are you Catholic Tony?

missdiag.: yes, I am.

Killfile: like I said a number of times before about your denial of reality about unborn children: until you want to accept it I guess it won't happen. We all have a mental block in regard to something and this is one of your major ones: it is a very serious one because you are advocating murder and you are adding to the numbers of those who are suffering from an abortion experience.

you are adding to the numbers of those who are suffering from an abortion experience.

Wait, wait wait just a minute here.

Killfile, who, by the by, is male, is adding to the numbers of those who are suffering from an abortion experience?

How, precisely?

He's obviously not having an abortion any time soon.

He's certainly not forcing women to have abortions.

Are you suggesting that he is "adding to those numbers" simply by advocating for a woman's right to choose?

Seriously?

Palin is a reformer thats a hard agrument for Obama to go against.

really? do you HONESTLY think palein has a reformer bone in her body?

if so, i really want some of what you are smoking.