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KILLFILE
Epicurean Intelligentsia
Articles Posted: 305; Links Seeded: 7617
Member Since: 2/2006Last Seen: 11/25/2009
Member Since: 2/2006Last Seen: 11/25/2009
910 Comments
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Palin's speech was:
- Great!65%
- Good7%
- So So...6%
- Weak6%
- Awful!16%
Total Votes: 548
Palin on the 3rd day of the RNC.
Photo Credit: treviño via Creative Commons and Flickr
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On Friday of last week Alaska Governor Sarah Palin was figuring out if she has any anxieties about public speaking on the national stage. Now she knows; she has none. A short while ago she walked out onto a stage in St. Paul and addressed the Republican National Convention, accepting the Republican nomination for Vice President of the United States to chants of "Sarah! Sarah!"
For Palin, the stakes were unusually high. Her announcement as McCain's running mate last Friday was met with a degree of skepticism and shock and while Newsvine reporters at both the Republican and Ron Paul conventions indicated that she had been well received within the party and the larger conservative movement, the same could not be said of the country at large, least of all the media.
What She Had To Do
Tonight, Palin spoke to the Republicans second and America first. It was her first truly national address and one that sought primarily to establish her as a legitimate political contender in the Presidential arena. Though the McCain campaign has successfully kept expectations fairly low for Palin, she had to convincingly accomplish three major tasks in the course of her speech.
Win Hearts and Minds
Palin's first task was her easiest. For millions of Americans watching the Convention from home, this speech was their first introduction to the Alaska Governor. Their first impression of her, both as a person and a political leader, was vital to the GOP's ability to sell the McCain/Palin ticket. To that end, Palin had to meet the expectations of the Republican party and come across as charming, intelligent, and capable. It was a task she accomplished with flying colors. She successfully played up her mayoral and gubernatorial experience and spoke extensively of her family, establishing her status as a Republican "every-woman," with warm and extensive tales of her family's history.
But the Republican party and the American people need Palin to be more than a charming, intelligent, and capable woman; they need her to be Presidential. While Palin delivered a speech that set her apart as a warm and friendly counterpart to John McCain's brass-tacks public persona, she had difficulty communicating a sense of gravitas in her delivery. Palin's extensive discussion of her family also left her sounding a bit more like a late-night radio talk show host than a political heavyweight as she later sought to portray herself.
Make the Republican Case
That lack of gravitas should not, however, be confused for timidity. While the Republican Party stands for many things in 2008, the first and foremost issue on the mind of any GOP candidate for national office is why Barack Obama and Joe Biden do not deserve 272 electoral votes. Palin's attacks on the Democratic ticket were overt, brutal, and well delivered. She scored her political points with precision and pulled no punches, a style that played very well with the crowd at the RNC, but risks casting her as an attack-dog outside the walls of that convention center.
Politically aggressive or otherwise, few would argue that Palin's place on the Republican ticket is not also gamble for the 18,000,000 or so votes cast for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic Primary. With such a deep rift between Democrats and smoldering allegations of sexism as well it makes perfect sense to put a woman on the Republican ticket but that alone does not win those votes.
This speech marked Palin's first opportunity to present the Republican platform to the thousands – perhaps millions – of women to whom that political glass ceiling is a key issue. Palin's gender earns her their attention, but her ability to sell the platform is what will (or will not) win her their votes.
With "Drill Baby Drill" still reverberating throughout the convention hall, energy policy – particularly given its importance to her native Alaska – proved a logical and compelling starting point for Palin's Vice Presidential campaign. The Alaska Governor addressed the issue in pragmatic terms and common language, stating Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America's energy problems - as if we all didn't know that already. But the fact that drilling won't solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all.
Dodge Bullets
Palin's remarks on energy were a far cry from the controversial positions espoused by her party. Indeed, in her discussion of many issues Palin studiously avoided the more divisive extremes of the Republican platform and gravitated towards the comfortable common ground in the middle. Notably absent from her speech was the pivotal issue of abortion. This and other wedge issues serve to endear Palin (and by extension McCain) to the Evangelical wing of the party base, but that wing requires little convincing and Palin's speech was not for their benefit.
Consequently, Governor Palin's address avoided the traditional right-wing talking-points and platitudes, seeking a more centrist tone on issues while maintaining an offensive against the Democrats. Unlike McCain, whose Conservative credentials remain in some doubt, Palin's record as a "maverick" is that of someone pulling her local party to the right rather than the center and as a consequence the voters she spoke to were those towards the middle, not those on the fringe.
Also notably absent from Palin's speech was any mention of the veritable blizzard of stories surrounding her past and candidacy. Since McCain tapped Palin on Friday, radio, television, and computer networks have been ablaze with revelations, disclosures, and questions about her past and her present. Largely unvetted by both the McCain campaign and by the media at large, Palin passed up her first and highest profile opportunity to diffuse many of these issues. This could well prove the biggest failing of her address to the Convention. Since Friday, bookies in the UK have dropped the payout on a bet that McCain would dump Palin from the ticket from 20:1 to 8:1; a veritable impossibility now, but perhaps indicative of the difficulty of the campaign yet to come.
193 Votes- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
Published to:
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- Groups: MSNBC.com, PalinVine, Republican National Convention, The CoH Militia
- Regions: none
 | Palin Rumors in the Spotlight: A Boon for the RNC | Brian Ford | Wed Sep 3 | 26 |
| So you really think Palin's a lousy pick? | Andy Min | Thu Sep 4 | 57 |
| Things About Governor Palin and Pregnancy That ARE Open to Discussion | iarnuocon | Wed Sep 3 | 47 |
| Yes She Can Read Rhetoric, Fluff, and Lies -- But We Knew That Anyway | Andrew Spagnoli | Thu Sep 4 | 64 |
| Palin the Attack Dog! | cards6 | Wed Sep 3 | 0 |
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{"commentId":2742672,"authorDomain":"mmulhall"}
I thought she was too much of a smart aleck. I left the room perhaps 2/3 through her speech. Growing up in the Midwest I'm used to hearing small town kids come to the city with a chip on their shoulder. Palin reminded me of that.
I always thought Republicans were for big business and country clubs. When did they become champion for the tatted up biker crowd from places like Sturgis SD?
Palin can be the attack dog and that's fine. But if she catches a slap shot in the teeth I don't want to hear about it.
{"commentId":2742672,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"mmulhall"}
- 3 votes
#26 - Wed Sep 3, 2008 11:59 PM EDT{"commentId":2742704,"authorDomain":"kbstauff"}
With a little practice, she would make a good standup comic. Overall I would say - new face, same message. The one note song will wear thin after everyone gets over the convention bounce.
If they aren't careful, people are going to start questioning McCain's experience - he has never held an executive position either!
{"commentId":2742704,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"kbstauff"}
- 1 vote
#27 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:00 AM EDT{"commentId":2742721,"authorDomain":"v-marshall"}
Palin said nothing about real issues. She sounded like a good highschool debater. Why would the speach writers think cut downs would be impressive to the American public. As I watched the crowd at this convention, it looked a lot like a Klan rally than a political assembly.
{"commentId":2742721,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"v-marshall"}
#28 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:01 AM EDT{"commentId":2742725,"authorDomain":"teamUSA"}
Palin kicked Obama's pathetic BUTT tonight....BYE BYE OBAMA-BIDEN!!!
MCCAIN - PALIN 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!
{"commentId":2742725,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"teamUSA"}
- 4 votes
#29 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:01 AM EDT{"commentId":2742873,"authorDomain":"m-faccone"}
Yeah.. right.
Dream on.
She opened the box.. now watch the fight start.
I'm getting popcorn and watch the Billy Jean tennis match again.
{"commentId":2742873,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"m-faccone"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2743101,"authorDomain":"brooke-1963"}
I'm thinking that the first guy to say something to her, is going to send her running back into McCain's arms for protection!
She thinks its been difficult so far this week, when we've all learned about her daughter's plight - honey its hardly started and once you open the door to politics everything is fair game - you belong to the public, not yourself.
She opened the door, she could have down the properly, womanly thing, and held herself above the pettiness, but the minute she started with the old if you've got nothing to say bash the Dem's, she made herself fair game.
I hope she's got on her big girl panties.
{"commentId":2743101,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"brooke-1963"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2743924,"authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
I was thinking the same thing brooke, I hope the Dems treat it very carefully.
Just attack her policy and experience, but not get personal at all or the Reps will cry foul.
Again.
To the "Media" in general, be you right or liberal, please don't let off covering her. Ask questions, don't let her hide. Seems to me she and her handlers are heading her towards just giving speeches and no interviews what so ever.
Please ask her questions, be polite, be insistent. BUT, DO NOT be DISTRACTED by off topic words or phrases.
{"commentId":2743924,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2742798,"authorDomain":"emgallaghe"}
Most of Sarah Palin's speech could have been written decades ago. I felt like I was back in the cold war, or watching an old western with simplistic good and bad guys and America is always right and always wins. She is appealing to the worst in us - stereotypes, us versus them, etc.... I did find it humorously ironic that she kept railing against Washington, when John McCain is one of the longest serving senators in Washington. She's a "reformer" who got more earmarks for her small town and for Alaska then most other states in the U.S.. She's a "hockey mom " who decries the Washington elite...isn't John McCain one of them? His campaign is replete with lobbyists, his former economic advisor called Americans "whiners"....he doesn't know how many houses he owns, or what kind of car he drives.....need I say more. As my parents use to say, "people in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"
{"commentId":2742798,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"emgallaghe"}
- 2 votes
#30 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:04 AM EDT{"commentId":2742807,"authorDomain":"elsholland"}
GO OBAMA!! So far the Republicans have not shown me any change. They will give us another four more years of the same.
{"commentId":2742807,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"elsholland"}
- 2 votes
#31 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:05 AM EDT{"commentId":2742883,"authorDomain":"nadahope51"}
Scott said it right: if you came in cheering for Obama, nothing changed in you tonight...
Well, I never cheered for Obama(did for Hillary!), nor McCain.
But that lady impressed me. McCain picked good running mate, for whatever reason he did, it will boost his votes.
Look out Dem's! You'll fight dirty, but that lady can take you on.
You messed up for not electing Hillary! Hillary would have had my vote, but with McCain's smart choice, I may just consider to give them a check mark!
{"commentId":2742883,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"nadahope51"}
- 2 votes
#32 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:08 AM EDT{"commentId":2743014,"authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
Good point. I've talked to MANY Hillary supporters that are a little offended that the Democratic party simply believes they will come over to Obama simply because he is now the nominee. Many of them picked in this order.
Hillary
McCain
Obama
I think the Dems have their work cut out to win over the Hillary supporters....
{"commentId":2743014,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2743131,"authorDomain":"ana13"}
I just don't believe that someone who would vote for Hillary would vote for that woman. It makes absolutely no sense. What is the basis on which you decide who to vote for? Is it actual policies and beliefs?
{"commentId":2743131,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"ana13"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":2743202,"authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
Let me clarify, they aren't voting for Sara Palin, they are voting for McCain. We typically vote for the top of the ticket, not the bottom.. Can anyone seriously say they voted for Dan Quayle? Nope. So I'm not portending they want Sara, they want McCain over Obama.
{"commentId":2743202,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2743282,"authorDomain":"elsholland"}
At least Obama picked his own running mate. Nothing against Hillary. She would have been a very good VP, but Obama felt he needed someone else and I admire him for choosing who he thinks will be better for his presidency.
John McCain would have liked to have picked Liebermann, but unfortunately his party had some say so. Remember the majority of his party did not like him in the primaries. They made fun of him and he beat the Republican establishment and now they all have to eat dirt. Now they cheer for him. what kind of party is that. The right wing folks had nothing good to say about him during the primaries.
I really liked McCain in 2000 when he ran as an Independent. But the Karl Roves and the likes smeared McCain's campaign so badly and we ended up with Bush, a guy who ran the saving and loans in the ground in Texas as well as a baseball team. Was he qualified? Hell no..look where we are now?
I just can and will not vote for McCain he has become another Bush and I won't stand for another 4 years.
{"commentId":2743282,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"elsholland"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2743302,"authorDomain":"m-faccone"}
I can't actually fathom that myself. How could someone vote ( unless its just a gender vote ) on issues, and cross party lines just because one democrat didn't get the ticket but the other one did.
Democratic ticket is still the same. Hillary is still in the Democratic party.
If you crossed over to McCain just because your P/Od about your loss... then you need to grow up and decide not to vote because your reasons are tainted.
That's almost like saying you will vote for Putin because Mayor Giuliani didn't get the nomination
{"commentId":2743302,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"m-faccone"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2743406,"authorDomain":"elsholland"}
Well that means you did not vote for Hillary's issues, but just for the Hillary name. Hillary supports Obama and her issues are as similar as Obama. I could never vote for McCain because I believe in Hillary's and Obama's issues and they are totally different. Voting for McCain is voting for a 3rd term Bush presidency.
{"commentId":2743406,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"elsholland"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2743534,"authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
I think you're thinking is a little simplistic on this. Give the American public (for the most part) credit for being able to determine distinctions between candidates within the same party. It has nothing to do with being P/od about your candidate not getting the nomination, it has to do with where you think Hillary would take the country as compared to Obama. I truly believe there are differences. For you to simply vote party line is the real shame.
{"commentId":2743534,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2743713,"authorDomain":"m-faccone"}
I vote for issues.. not party lines. I have voted Republican in the past because I agreed with their issues at the time. I voted for Dems for the same reason.... and I would vote for Independents as well. Its not party line here... its ISSUES!!!!
If you voted for Hillary... you voted for what? Gender? Issues? Look at her issues and compare that with McCain's? They are totally opposite.
Like I said... if you are crossing over party lines because Hillary didn't get the nomination.. it would be better if you didn't vote than to vote for the 180 degree version of the issues you wanted to vote for in the first place
{"commentId":2743713,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"m-faccone"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2743862,"authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
I'm thankful that you vote the issues but I can't believe you can tell me that Obama and Hillary were exactly alike on all the issues. My point is that the people I've spoken with were concerned about foreign relations and energy and they felt that Hillary had a better policy than McCain yet McCain provides a better solution than Obama. I'm not saying they are going out to vote for him but that they aren't voting for Obama just for party purposes and that should concern the Obama camp tremendously.
{"commentId":2743862,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2744069,"authorDomain":"m-faccone"}
I can't believe you can believe that McCain is closer to Hillary's stance on issues than Obama.
One thing I didn't hear tonight... if they want Hillary voters... Economy. Where is the economy issues in McCain's campaign? All I hear is Dem bashing... and crying from the Republicans when someone brings up an issues that contains truth. I hear the Republicans claim the Gender card... yet throw the Race card whenever it suits them.
Bridge to nowhere? she was for then against then took the money and kept it without building the bridge.
McCain? No earmarks? What was the S&L bailout?
They all lie.. but the Republicans this time around are doing a better job of it.
{"commentId":2744069,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"m-faccone"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2745454,"authorDomain":"kalika-h"}
That's one thing I have to hand it to Republicans, they stick together. You will NEVER hear a Republican say anything negative about McCain or Palin if they like them or not. Us Democrats need to stick together for the good of the country. War is not a virtue.
{"commentId":2745454,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"kalika-h"}
{"commentId":2755269,"authorDomain":"nadahope51"}
I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I like some of the things Dem's stand for and some that Rep's stand for. In the same way I hate some things Dem's and some things Rep's stand for. This election is very tough, because I don't like neither one of the candidates. We have very poor choice. I know a lot is at stake this election, with a mess this country is in. With foreign policy being important issue this election, special toward Middle East and Israel, national security, and energy problems we have, for me it seems more reasonable to vote for McCain, specially after he chose Palin. That's how I see it, and I understand other people differ.
{"commentId":2755269,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"nadahope51"}
{"commentId":2742888,"authorDomain":"thelevitator"}
I was disappointed that she used her first opportunity to speak to the nation to sarcastically attack over half the country, instead of telling us in her own words who she is. I think she really set herself up for a big fall. Has anyone here taken the time to read what's being written about her in her home state? She has told so many half-truths that have already been discredited, that I look forward to seeing her backpedal and try to explain why she allowed herself to be used by the Republican party to win an election.
The most ironic part of the whole campaign is where she made the comparison of Obama using "change" to promote his"career", whereas McCain is using his "career" to promote "change". Pot, meet kettle! What the hell has she done by accepting a job she's not ready for and wasn't even being considered for up until the day before they offered her the job. The Republicans are touting her as a Change candidate, and it's definitely a career bump to go from the governor of the 47th least populated state in the country to Vice President. That line made me blow milk out of my nose, and that really hurts!
{"commentId":2742888,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"thelevitator"}
#33 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:08 AM EDT{"commentId":2742890,"authorDomain":"dunkrjd"}
I kept asking myself over and over again watching Palin and the other Republicans tonight, "Why are they all so angry?" After all, they have had a Republican President for the past eight years and a Republican Congress for five of those years. All of the complaining about government not working and it has been their own party in power! The Republicans have lost the most valuable message Ronald Reagan taught them. Americans disdain bitterness and anger when receiving political messages. Barack Obama's studious evaluation of Reagan as a "transformative figure" is serving him well. In difficult times, Americans want to follow the engaging optimist. Like Reagan, Obama is that leader for these times.
{"commentId":2742890,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"dunkrjd"}
- 6 votes
#34 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:08 AM EDT{"commentId":2743428,"authorDomain":"elsholland"}
great assessment!
{"commentId":2743428,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"elsholland"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2747557,"authorDomain":"retiredtoflorida"}
To Rich D...
I too agree with your assessment of "angry" Republicans. I experienced the "anger" last night. For the first time ever I worked for a political campaign - Obama's. I called over 100 (mostly women) people on the phone from the Barack Obama Campaign in my city, introduced myself and who I was calling for, and asked them 1 question - Have you decided who you will support in the upcoming national presidential election? The majority of people who were angry with me were those who supported McCain. "I'm a republican don't call back! kind of thing. A couple of republicans laughed and just hung up on me.
From MY experience, "ANGRY" is an appropriate description of these folks. It was sad. and I felt sorry for them in general...
Regarding Hillary - I spoke to 3 women who appeared angry b/c she didn't get the nomination and they believed Obama turned his back on her. 2 of these women believe they will not vote and if they do they'll vote for Ralph Nader, which they believe will send a clear message to both McCain and Obama.
I inquired about that and both said that in good conscience they could never vote for McCain and, just b/c he put a woman on his ticket, they felt it was a total insult to think that women for Hillary would support Palin whose views and stands clearly weren't those of Hillary's or "their's." I learned from listening to them that they are actually more "fence sitters" at the moment... they conceded that perhaps over the next few months they will "forgive" Obama since Hillary is first and foremost a Dem and she now backs him 100%. Clearly for these 2 ladies it has not been an issue of them just wanting a woman in the white house... it was THAT woman, period. I discussed the issues with them that they felt were most important - heathcare, women's issues (choice) , and the economy seemed to be at the top of their lists. I believe when the dust settles they will most definitely vote for Obama. Ultimately, it wasn't anger that drove them, it was the feeling of being "hurt."
The other "angry" Hillary supporter had a need to vent... after she did she said she would certainly vote for Obama and again, wouldn't even consider voting for McCaim regardless of a woman being on his ticket. Her major issues were Healthcare, (she is a nurse at a cancer center) SS, Education, and Choice.
I spoke to several women who were initially for Hillary and although were sad she didn't get the nomination, they will vote for Obama... no anger, no fence sitting, no way McCain.
I spoke to several men whose wives weren't available but they were happy to say they would both be voting for Obama... Mostly their issues: Iraq, healthcare, economy, choice.
I spoke to just a few life long republicans who were clearly seniors. They weren't angry, they were willing to tell me why McCain is their choice (none of the issues mattered. Bottom line for them was "habit" from being life long republicans. Didn't give a darn who his running mate is. The seniors were sweet...
Lastly, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the lovely gentleman who said his wife is not doing very well at all, when I requested to speak with her. He asked if he could take a message, introduced myself and why I was calling. Without getting personal and asking about his wife's condition, I simply said that I wish her well, and I hope she get's well soon. He said he did too, and he prays everyday that she'll get well. An obvious sign to me that whatever the issue, it's very serious. Anyway... he said, "We've decided to vote for Obama." Issues: HEALTHCARE, the Economy and Choice.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but impossible to speak about "anger" without giving you the benefit of my experience with both dems and republicans.
{"commentId":2747557,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"retiredtoflorida"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2742902,"authorDomain":"kickboxermomma"}
EMPTY, BORING SPEECH, FULL OF CONTINUED LIES ABOUT OBAMA'S TAX POLICIES. SHAME ON YOU SARAH PALIN WHAT KIND OF EXAMPLE ARE YOU TO YOUR CHILDREN/ AND TO THE REST OF AMERICA. IF YOU DON'T HAVE GOOD POSITION THEN LIE EVEN IF IT IS ABOUT "SMALL BUSINESS. ONE GAS STATION CAN MAKE UP TO A $1MILLION A YEAR. HOW MUCH DID YOUR RELATIVES SMALL BUSINESS MAKE? FACTCHECK HAS STATED THAT MCCAIN'S CAMPAIGN IS ENGAGING IN A PATTERN OF DECEIT. SARAH PALIN CONTINUES THOSE LIES. IF YOU LIE ABOUT SOMETHING SO EASILY CHECKED WHAT ELSE ARE YOU LYING ABOUT?
COMPARISON OF OBAMA MCCAIN TAX PLAN:
Single parent ,$40,000 w/ 2 kids and childcare expense Obama $2,100 McCain $125
Married couple $75,000 w/2 kids one in college Obama $3,700 McCain $125
Married couple $150,000 Obama $1,000 McCain $0
70 year old widow $35,000 Obama $1,900 McCain $0
EXXON MOBIL Obama $0 $1.2 Billion
No wonder McCain wants to lie and not make this about the issues. Obama wins on the issues hands down.
{"commentId":2742902,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"kickboxermomma"}
- 3 votes
#35 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:08 AM EDT{"commentId":2743161,"authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
wait, I'm confused. Looks like Obama is taxing more...may want to edit that before time expires...
{"commentId":2743161,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2743476,"authorDomain":"elsholland"}
Yes and when we get to debate our economy McCain will go down. GO OBAMA!
{"commentId":2743476,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"elsholland"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2743639,"authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
still confused, are those numbers you posted rebates or taxes?
{"commentId":2743639,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2743686,"authorDomain":"angkriv"}
I believe those are tax cuts scott. McCain is only giving breaks to the rich. You know people that own 8 houses and a housekeeping staff budget of over $270,000.
{"commentId":2743686,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"angkriv"}
{"commentId":2743759,"authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
I don't see that reflected above... I just don't know where he pays for these tax breaks...
{"commentId":2743759,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2743783,"authorDomain":"ier"}
Where did you get your numbers? Would like to know
{"commentId":2743783,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"ier"}
{"commentId":2744017,"authorDomain":"ier"}
Funny the last time I looked at the economic plan this was not what I saw. But who cares all the, small business will be dead from over taxation and regulation. We will all be in the same boat, the sinking one. Success most be punished, welcome to mediocrity. The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill
{"commentId":2744017,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"ier"}
{"commentId":2744042,"authorDomain":"angkriv"}
this article if from Cnn money.com-- google it there are lots of them. it is pointed out that Obama helps middle class more, yet both increase national debt significantly.*
Here's how the average tax bill could change in 2009 if either John McCain's or Barack Obama's tax proposals were fully in place.
MCCAIN OBAMA
Income Avg. tax bill Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
$227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290
$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
$19K-$38K -$113 -$892
Under $19K -$19 -$567
Source:The Tax Policy Center
{"commentId":2744042,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"angkriv"}
{"commentId":2744106,"authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
love the churchill quote - thanks!
{"commentId":2744106,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"scott-seiler"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2745228,"authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
As an addition to Angie in 37.8
The Tax Policy Center does say both tax plans have debt its that Obama's is considerably less than McCains, and in the end his plan has a smaller debt overall.
{"commentId":2745228,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
{"commentId":2747091,"authorDomain":"killfile"}
{"commentId":2757388,"authorDomain":"rfranzi"}
All I know about the issue of taxation is this: I have sacrificed years of my life and now owe the equivalent of a good-sized mortgage in student loans so that I can practice Medicine. I see many uninsured patients, and try to provide quality care in a cost-effective matter (which usually reduces my income).
Here's the rub: In order to actually make enough to pay my monthly student loan bills (as well as support my family), I exceed the cut-off to be able to actually deduct the interest on these loans. I pay more in federal taxes alone each year than the average gross salary in America. Add to that medicare, social security and state tax, I am not bringing home near as much as one may wish to believe. And certainly not enough to feel "rich". When unexpected expenses pop up (illness, etc) I am forced to work more hours with diminishing returns as I am just taxed at an even higher rate.
I worked very hard to get where I am. I did not inherit anything but the smarts and tenacity to get here on my own. If all you look at is my annual gross salary, you may be inclined to think I should pay a lot in taxes. But consider this: if all you want are people who are independently wealthy caring for your family's health care, than never mind. But if you want folks with compassion and honor (who didn't inherit anything) to care for your loved ones, this has to be factored into the equation somewhere.
I am not asking to pay no taxes, just that it not be equivalent to 38% of my gross salary, with strict limits on how many itemized deductions I can take to lower my tax burden.
If I understand the numbers posted on this blog, I will see a significant increase in taxes if Obama is elected. How is this "fair"?
{"commentId":2757388,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"rfranzi"}
{"commentId":2787029,"authorDomain":"brianbaker571"}
I'm not sure about what to tell realisticmom, since I don't know in relation to what she is judging "fair" by...
I'm sorry that insurance companies have you over a barrel and won't pay reasonable amounts for treatment. I'm sorry that banks charged exorbitant amounts of interest on the loans you went to college with.
But the reality is, you'll be seeing a lot more uninsured patients while you get tax relief, since McCain plans to eliminate the provision of having insurance premiums a pre-tax deduction for the rest of us. So we will have to pay through the nose for crappy insurance coverage AND pay taxes on it too.
Twice you use the word "inherit" within the same paragraph. Is their something wrong with inheritance? Maybe someone you know you got an easy life handed to them without having to work a day? Someone a lot like Cindy McCain?
McCain reminds me of Herbert Hoover. And we all know what happened when he came around...
{"commentId":2787029,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"brianbaker571"}
{"commentId":2742905,"authorDomain":"brooke-1963"}
I was very unimpressed. She talks very folksy. She had the opportunity to show the women of this country she was ready to be the first VP, and she BLEW IT. I wanted to here more about what she wants, her vision of the future - not the same if you have nothing to say, bash your opponent approach! So did she go to college? she mentioned her small townness, how she married her high school sweetheart - how cute. I want to hear from these oil men she conquered! Yes, PTA's and small town politics can be rough - but why is she in this, does she think her work in Alaska is done?
She sounded quite excited every time she had the opportunity to bash the opponents, this is very disappointing. Perhaps, it's too much to wish that a mother would have more class than that - oh that's right she's a hockey mom...lol.
{"commentId":2742905,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"brooke-1963"}
- 2 votes
#36 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:09 AM EDT{"commentId":2744104,"authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
I was wondering the same thing, did she go to college? If not that makes two of them on the ticket that didn't, right?
{"commentId":2744104,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
{"commentId":2745525,"authorDomain":"kalika-h"}
She went to the U of Idaho and majored in Communications and Journalism.
{"commentId":2745525,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"kalika-h"}
{"commentId":2743113,"authorDomain":"twocspirt2"}
Let us look in the rear view mirror. The lip stick is gone..."dog". She was talking to her kid's? Let us pray for the 33% of the fruit that fell off the bottom of the tree....let us pray, the next time she looks in the mirror, a doctor is there.............
{"commentId":2743113,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"twocspirt2"}
#37 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:16 AM EDT{"commentId":2743147,"authorDomain":"thenuckels"}
Mrs. Palin's speech was much what I expected. I probably shouldn't have been, but I was a little surprised that she repeated rather than corrected or omitted some of her previous statements on the Bridge to Nowhere, for instance, (she was for it, before she was against it and still took the money), and several other statements that have been shown, in just the last few days, to be less than accurate were also repeated.
I also thought that it was a rather astute tactic that the speech writers made almost no mention of social issues - the ultra-right already knows where she's coming from, and that is something they don't want the rest of us to focus on, so the approach is to - look and sound normal and moderate. The 'attack mode' may have been a bit over-played, but she lived up to the standards of one of her mentors, Phyllis Shaffly of the Eagle Forum, so that probably worked at least in the convention.
Overall, I'm sure the speech went over ok. She delivered it with confidence, but the body language was a bit distracting - always looks like she's on that parade float - and the voice still grates, but maybe they will give her voice lessons.
{"commentId":2743147,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"thenuckels"}
#38 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:17 AM EDT{"commentId":2743153,"authorDomain":"petrofm"}
I just can't see her head-to-head with international leaders. She has no clue whatsoever. I just don't think that both, Palin and McCain have an idea what the world is thinking about USA. Yeah, it's easier to shout USA, be cocky and stuff, but especially after Bush such an attitude will not work anymore. If McCain & Palin get elected, the whole world will be laughing at us. Again. Unfortunately, neither one of them cares...
{"commentId":2743153,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"petrofm"}
- 2 votes
#39 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:18 AM EDT{"commentId":2743185,"authorDomain":"professional4567"}
I now know it will not be a Republican vote for me. I was not impressed. Maybe so if she had written her speech. Wow, she is a good follower though.
{"commentId":2743185,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"professional4567"}
#40 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:19 AM EDT{"commentId":2743752,"authorDomain":"amygellia"}
She did write her own speech and a guy named Matthew Scully helped she met him last week, please get the fact's.
{"commentId":2743752,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"amygellia"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2743186,"authorDomain":"liza-sassy"}
For Sarah Palin to come out swinging like she did took guts, but she doesn't really have the experience to back it up. She looks and sounds like someone who's in way over her head, but it too arrogant to realize it. The party faithful ate it up, but independents and moderates are not drinking the kool-aid, they have serious questions about her flip-flopping on the bridge to nowhere, the earmarks for Wasilla, the firing of the state employee, the work for Ted Steven's 527, her quote that our troops should only be deployed on a "task from God" (that's not going to help us fight radical Islamic groups)and most important her positions on global warming and abortion rights. Questioning her experience is no more sexist than it is racist to ask Obama about his experience. This is a tactic is a way of trying to divert attention and scrutiny away from her lack of knowledge about foreign policy and domestic issues. Obama has been under the microscope for 18 months, he's been running a very disciplined campaign for longer than Sarah's been Gov - with a bigger budget and more employees than Wasilla. We know that he has the knowledge to deal with both domestic and international problems.
I don't want this woman a heartbeat away from the Presidency, she's just not qualified - calling out the snow plows in Wasilla isn't really tough executive experience.
{"commentId":2743186,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"liza-sassy"}
- 2 votes
#41 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:19 AM EDT{"commentId":2743747,"authorDomain":"paytheon"}
Oh please do tell Obama's experience sassy before you come across ignorant. Then tell us how Biden came out in an angry hateful way against the other party. As for the rest of your rhetoric, who cares???? I don't. Both parties behaved the same at their conventions. Perhaps you are to bias to see that.
{"commentId":2743747,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"paytheon"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2756985,"authorDomain":"tlgressett"}
I repeat. Both party conventions have had the neener neener neener speeches. It's rude and childish and not worthy of the office of President or Vice President. I want to hear the facts and only the facts. I don't care if you were in the PTA or if you're a Hockey Mom. I don't care if your grandfather fought in WWII. I care what you will do to turn this country around.
Many of her comments made her sound like one of the high school cheerleaders who stand in the corner with the rest making comments about the girls that didn't make the squad.
Not professional and not Vice Presidential!
{"commentId":2756985,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"tlgressett"}
{"commentId":2743204,"authorDomain":"tbh29520"}
Well...citizens of USA...seems we have to make a choice. Either FOUR more years of Bush-Cheney-McCain politics OR CHANGE to someone who believes in EDUCATION. For all those out there EDUCATION is the key to winning this election. This stems from education on family values such as abortion -prevention - AIDS to College Education!
{"commentId":2743204,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"tbh29520"}
- 2 votes
#42 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:20 AM EDT{"commentId":2743272,"authorDomain":"alaskajoe"}
Sarah Palin energized the audience? Tonight on America's got Talent, a 4 year old singer, Kaitlin, also electrified and energized the audience. David Hasselhoff said, Kaitlin, you should run for President! I agree. Maybe McCain should contact little 4 year old Kaitlin, get her on the ticket!
{"commentId":2743272,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"alaskajoe"}
- 1 vote
#43 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:22 AM EDT{"commentId":2743307,"authorDomain":"elsholland"}
Ha! Ha!
{"commentId":2743307,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"elsholland"}
{"commentId":2743276,"authorDomain":"liza-sassy"}
I don't want an "average hockey mom" to be VP, I want someone extrodinary. Shouldn't our leaders be extrodinary?
{"commentId":2743276,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"liza-sassy"}
- 1 vote
#44 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:22 AM EDT{"commentId":2744233,"authorDomain":"ryc5"}
Sassy - well said. Maybe it's because "extraordinary" smacks too much of "Washington elite", the new buzzphrase from the RNC.
I've been desperately trying to figure out what's in the kool-aid, crazy pills, call it what you like in the Republican mentality. Why are they looking for the class clown near the bottom of his class (and proud of it) or the prom queen? Although it'd be really cool to have a beer with the commander in chief, is that really what I want? Should these be my criteria to vote for McCain/Palin? No. I would rather choose someone intelligent and surrounded by great advisors who makes informed decisions.
{"commentId":2744233,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"ryc5"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2744257,"authorDomain":"ier"}
Obama is not, he just talks pretty
{"commentId":2744257,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"ier"}
{"commentId":2745584,"authorDomain":"kalika-h"}
No I like the other new catch phrase the "Beltway Elite".
{"commentId":2745584,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"kalika-h"}
{"commentId":2750913,"authorDomain":"patinniss1"}
Amen! Amen!
{"commentId":2750913,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"patinniss1"}
{"commentId":2743289,"authorDomain":"Techno-Mom"}
Her speech was well delivered but unbelievable. I had hoped she was writing her own speech so we could get a better read on HER but then learned that there was a canned speech ready for [insert VP name here] that had to be retooled for her. It's hard to feel passionate about a speech when you learn it's a generic speech. I need more to be convinced. Where was her American flag?
{"commentId":2743289,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"Techno-Mom"}
#45 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:22 AM EDT{"commentId":2743337,"authorDomain":"kikihq"}
i think she was adequate...
but personally i really did NOT enjoy her tone. I think that kind of sarcasm may fly in front of your home crowed that will accept you no matter what, but it will not convince undecided to flock to her corner.
Mathews and them were talking about how well she delivered the speech... I was annoyed at how she delivered it, too many silly pauses and it made me feel like a town hall meeting and it totally lacked soul and charm (I think as her firest major introduction she needed to produce some) I didn't think it was arousing, maybe if you were in the hall but not in front of my TV.
--- I don't find that accent charming either.
lastly I think the bar was set so low that people find it to be a great speech, I kept looking for Carvel on CNN because he was raving about the talent in the Democratic party.... I think none of the speeches ...except maybe Giuliani (not so much for Content, but more for being believable as the character 'attack dog" he portrayed) No talent here, and as for shrill ... yes she was shrill as in inelegant and I think it is a good word and yes stop toning back. (i think you are being way to kind to her) And for god's sake get of the sexism thing. She should be held to the same standart as everybody else ....
{"commentId":2743337,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"kikihq"}
- 1 vote
#46 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:24 AM EDT{"commentId":2743342,"authorDomain":"lfm"}
I thought Sarah Palins true colors showed tonight. She was arrogant and rude just like the Bush administration.
{"commentId":2743342,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"lfm"}
- 3 votes
#47 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:24 AM EDT{"commentId":2743362,"authorDomain":"hughring"}
Why did Palin put down on community organizers and say they have no responsibilities??
{"commentId":2743362,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"hughring"}
- 2 votes
#48 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:25 AM EDT{"commentId":2743896,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}
She was attempting to diminish the beginnings of Obama's career, when he was a community organizer in Chicago.
But all she did was outright insult every citizen of this country who works to better their own communities. Like the PTA does, for example. An organization for which she worked, as she told us. Hmmm. I'd like to hear Palin tell me that she had no responsibilities when she was involved with the PTA.
{"commentId":2743896,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":2744269,"authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
And don't forget, how she put down candidates that say one thing to one group of people and say something else the next day to another group of people.....lets see how she apologizes now to the community organizers.
{"commentId":2744269,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2744335,"authorDomain":"ier"}
Wrong ! she pointed pit that Obama could deride her experience as the mayor of a small community but we must celebrate his short experience as a organizer? Did he achieve any improvements, the slums of Chicago are still the slums. He used the social activism as a way to get in to politics. Don't be fooled. The man is not the saviour, or the messiah he is just as man
{"commentId":2744335,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"ier"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2745322,"authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
Ivonne that wasn't the point of the comments,
There are already media reports coming in saying that various community organizers around the country are insulted by what she said in her attempt to denigrate Obama.
{"commentId":2745322,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2745703,"authorDomain":"kalika-h"}
Why do Republicans feel that to be a TRUE American or Patriot you have to fight wars? Why can't a TRUE American be a doctor, one who heals the sick? Or a lawyer, one who defends the innocent? Or a scientist, one who invents? Or a community organizer, one who rallies the community for change. There are many Americans who did not choose the path of the military. I am offended at the thought that because I decided to go to college and grad school I am less of a Patriot. I am offended because I believe in peace not War I don't put country first. Guiliani said that the Democrats at the convention not once mentioned 911. That's because they wanted to leave the fear mongering to the Republicans.
{"commentId":2745703,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"kalika-h"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":2762063,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}
I'm not fooled, lvonne. I am a resident of Illinois, and I teach at Columbia College in Chicago. I've been familiar with Barack Obama for quite a while.
By no stretch of the imagination do I envision the man as some kind of messiah.
But I like him a hell of a lot more than I do McCain/Palin. I KNOW what I'll get if that team is elected to the highest pair of offices in the land.
At least with Obama/Biden, there's a chance that there might be some real change, change that means something to me personally, to my children, to my community of friends.
I am alone, as well, in a family full of Republicans, in my support of Barack Obama. With a family business in manufacturing of parts for heavy trucks and construction equipment, I am all too familiar with the effect Obama's economic policy and tax plan will have on the family business and on the family members involved in the business.
But, having been around now for forty years, and having weathered the seventies, I'm certain the business will survive and thrive (especially with my brothers at the helm), and I'm certain my family members' bank accounts will make it through. Though, none of 'em will be happy about it.
{"commentId":2762063,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2818023,"authorDomain":"k3nny"}
But, having been around now for forty years, and having weathered the seventies, I'm certain the business will survive and thrive (especially with my brothers at the helm), and I'm certain my family members' bank accounts will make it through. Though, none of 'em will be happy about it.
Well, then, that makes it ok. Jesus.
{"commentId":2818023,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"k3nny"}
{"commentId":2818611,"authorDomain":"k3nny"}
Also, it's 50 years.
{"commentId":2818611,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"k3nny"}
{"commentId":2743366,"authorDomain":"rlashlee"}
It is funny how people find wrong doings in the candidates they don't like.
Neither campaign has resisted negativity. Both pulled all the punches at their respective conventions. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans steered clear of slamming the opposition. Therefore, please stop talking about it. Both sides do it. They must if they want to win. That is American politics. You just look dumb and naive when you criticize the opposition for being negative. Both Biden and Palin attacked he other side pretty roughly. Get over it. It's all the same.
I can't wait for November so I an stop hearing all this garbage. It's just ridiculous.
{"commentId":2743366,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"rlashlee"}
- 1 vote
#49 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:25 AM EDT{"commentId":2743683,"authorDomain":"paytheon"}
Finally, somebody got it right!
{"commentId":2743683,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"paytheon"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2743398,"authorDomain":"liza-sassy"}
Palin energized the party faithful, but the republicans need the moderates and independents and after watching Sarah Palin, I still see too many un-answered questions,and I hardly think I'm the only one. I thought for her to go after Obama was sad, she just doesn't have the background to talk that talk, and much of what she said about policy and even her own reform and fighting the lobbyists, just wasn't true.
{"commentId":2743398,"threadId":"348133","contentId":"1823524","authorDomain":"liza-sassy"}
- 2 votes
#50 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:26 AM EDT{"canLink":false,"threadId":"348133","isPrivate":false}
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