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McCain Closes Convention On His Own Terms

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How did McCain do?

  • Great!
    31%
  • Ok
    12%
  • So so...
    12%
  • Weak
    25%
  • Awful!
    20%

Total Votes: 1965

John McCain during his 2008 nomination acceptance speech. Image captured from MSNBC (Newsvine is owned by MSNBC.com)

A protester holds out a sign during the McCain acceptance speech. Image captured from MSNBC (Newsvine is owned by MSNBC.com)

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John McCain's speech was a departure of sorts: a departure from the fiery rhetoric of Sarah Palin's speech on Wednesday night, a departure from the Paton-like format of pervious speeches at the Republican National Convention, and a departure from the traditional mode and and method of an nomination speech. It was, in essence, a gamble and one that could either pay large dividends or cost the McCain campaign dearly in the months to come.

A Departure From Palin

Notably absent from McCain's speech to the convention was the biting rhetoric and fiery language of Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin. The Alaska Governor's harsh words and relentless assault on the Democratic ticket have proved polarizing but predictably popular in Republican circles. Rather than following Palin's lead, McCain took a more centrist and civil approach, stating that the Obama campaign has his respect and admiration. McCain went on to highlight his disagreements with Senator Obama, but – for the most part - engaged the Democrats on matters of substance rather than style. It was a calculated move and a wise one, intended to appeal to moderates as much as Palin's far more vitriolic speech targeted the conservative base.

Indeed, the two speeches are best considered together. Palin's blistering rhetoric and hard-line stances, both on and off the convention floor are clearly intended to consolidate the ticket's credentials with the hard-right Republican base. This effectively freed up McCain to play the maverick which he did extensively during his acceptance speech. Relying on the Palin's record and the implicit statements made by her presence on the ticket, McCain, like Obama in Denver, spoke to the all-important middle, talking about bipartisanship and promising to [work] with members of both parties to fix problems that need to be fixed.

A Departure From Rhetoric

As George W. Bush proved in both 2000 and 2004, that crucial, middle of the road, undecided voter has certain expectations and desires of a candidate – expectations that McCain played to expertly. Americans look for a candidate they can connect with, one that, as the saying goes, they might like to have a beer with.

McCain has doggedly pursued this public image, doubly so in his acceptance speech. The Republican nominee used short and simple sentences throughout the speech, providing a stark contrast to the high rhetorical style that Senator Obama has become known for. In some ways it was a shrewd political move; McCain will inevitably be compared to Obama and his speaking style and strengths do not run towards the sort of classical rhetoric that allows the Democratic nominee to draw and dominate stadium sized crowds. Avoiding a contest there avoids the (fairly inevitably) unfavorable comparison; it risks, however, the possibility of coming across as too simple and insufficiently ceremonious for the nomination of a Presidential candidate though the St. Paul crowd's enthusiasm was unabated.

Most of the St. Paul crowd anyway. Unlike Obama's speech in Denver, McCain was plagued with protestors throughout his address, forcing him to break from the prepared text at least once. His crowd, loyal to the last, shouted many of them down but the result for the television viewer was a disjointed looking speech which gave the impression that McCain could not control the crowd.

A Departure From Tradition

McCain's short and simple style also meshed well with the Arizona Senator's choice of venue. Uncomfortable in the vast open space of a football stadium and more at home speaking to crowds of a hundred rather than a hundred-thousand, McCain delivered his acceptance in a town-hall format. He spoke on a low platform that extended out into the audience, putting him among the delegates and sending what was no doubt a populist image, though one that was largely missed by those watching a tightly-cropped image of the speech from home.

He carried it off successfully and the audience seemed to respond well to him; chants of "USA! USA!" and "John Mc-Cain!" reverberated through the hall and – on more than one occasion - the Republican Nominee waited patiently and for the crowd to settle down.

Of course, the audience response is the strength of the the town-hall style; it's basically a given. What remains to be seen, and what really cannot be judged from the reactions of the crowd in the convention hall is how the larger audience at home responded to the speech and McCain's unorthodox style. Town halls lend a comfortable and homey feel, but it is a feel that may not seem altogether appropriate to a nomination speech.

A Departure From The Republican Brand

The weakest aspect of McCain's speech proved his delivery. While McCain started with confidence and comfort, as he made his way through the speech the Senator seemed to tire. By the half-way point McCain was tripping over words, skipping pauses, and nonsensically repeating things. He seemed tired and – from time to time – flustered by his difficulty with the text. The speech had a big finish and the crowd certainly reacted to it, but it seemed out of place given the rest of the speech, almost

While his style was weak, the substance of McCain's speech was strong. The Republican Nominee played well to the crowd but it was his willingness to be critical of the GOP's own record that proved most compelling and most bolstered his "maverick" image. Before McCain moved into the "compare and contrast" phase of his speech he critiqued not just the Democrats but Washington as a whole, using words like "we" instead of "they," and accepting some of the blame and fault for the failures of the last few years; it was a powerful message and one that, more than anything else said in the evening and perhaps the in week, served to distinguish him from the unpopular Republican brand and establish him as his own man.

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{"commentId":2765443,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

Some of the slip-ups were just.... weird. Palin has worked with her hands and nose?

If we get any reports from Newsviners on the ground I'll post them here. Stay tuned.

While we wait, what are you thoughts? How did McCain do?

{"commentId":2765443,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
  • 9 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:12 PM EDT
{"commentId":2765536,"authorDomain":"v-shious"}

I felt sad for McCain as I listened to the speech. Just like the W used the vets as human shields for their failed policies Old McCain used his heroic younger self to cover up his total surrender to the Neocons.

{"commentId":2765536,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"v-shious"}
  • 11 votes
#1.1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:17 PM EDT
{"commentId":2765631,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

Is his delivery always that awful? at one point he spoke slower than Al Gore

{"commentId":2765631,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
  • 15 votes
#1.2 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:23 PM EDT
{"commentId":2765773,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

From Newsvine's own Otto, reporting from the convention hall:

Palin got the most passion out of the crowd just from the couple times she walked in the room. They went insane for her.

Otto also noted that people reacted well to the nice things McCain said about Obama, particularly the bit about his working with the Democrats.

When I asked him about how the last 30 second or so stood up to the rest of the speech he pointed out that no one could really hear them. The crowd noise was too much and, for those in the convention hall, McCain's closing remarks were lost amid the cheers.

{"commentId":2765773,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:31 PM EDT
{"commentId":2767192,"authorDomain":"getahome"}

MCCain looked like a president. He is going to let the kids battle it out Palin and Obama while he sets forth to run the country.

{"commentId":2767192,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"getahome"}
  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:48 AM EDT
{"commentId":2767271,"authorDomain":"mikerupert"}

Really nice reporting, Killfile. I think McCain looked weak, the presentation overall was weak, and I don't think his critical remarks of the GOP is going to win over many people. A 90% voting record with George W. Bush the past 8 years is what the Democrats are going to hammer home until election day, and in the end, it'll mostly be his undoing.

{"commentId":2767271,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"mikerupert"}
  • 7 votes
#1.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:53 AM EDT
{"commentId":2767379,"authorDomain":"motoko"}

I will say this, Obama has some work to do. McCain went for the heart strings and he hit a few needless to say.

{"commentId":2767379,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"motoko"}
  • 6 votes
#1.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:01 AM EDT
{"commentId":2767534,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

A 90% voting record with George W. Bush the past 8 years

This keeps getting repeated, but I'm just not sure how it can be true considering that he's missed 63.8% of his votes this term alone.

{"commentId":2767534,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
  • 4 votes
#1.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:12 AM EDT
{"commentId":2767646,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

It's true if, of the votes he made, he voted 90% of the time with Bush.

{"commentId":2767646,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
  • 7 votes
#1.8 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:21 AM EDT
{"commentId":2767853,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

Hmm, Obama votes "present", McCain votes "not present".

Also what counts as a Bush vote, considering he is the President and doesn't actually vote. Do they consider a non-veto to be a vote?

Anyway, I wonder how close Obama's voting record is with Bush's then. They both supported the Patriot Act, they both supported spending more tax payer money on Iraq ... I bet the voting record would be closer than many would think.

{"commentId":2767853,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
  • 6 votes
#1.9 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:37 AM EDT
{"commentId":2767902,"authorDomain":"walt857"}

Agree- I could I am a dem who might have considered voting for the old (no pun) McCain of 8-9 yrs ago, before he sold out to right wing zealots. His speech was just so-so, but then he never was very good in the large hall format. Did you see some of the bewildered looks in the audience? They wanted a vitriolic anti left rant, a la Palin, and he gave them a bland dose of bipartisanship. The applause was tepid, most of the time.

{"commentId":2767902,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"walt857"}
  • 3 votes
#1.10 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:42 AM EDT
{"commentId":2768107,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

Hmm, Obama votes "present", McCain votes "not present".

Let's see: if 90% of life is showing up, and Obama voted present on 3% of his votes, and McCain is not present for 63% of his votes then I guess that means…zombies?

{"commentId":2768107,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
  • 6 votes
#1.11 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:04 AM EDT
{"commentId":2768125,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

Anyway, I wonder how close Obama's voting record is with Bush's then.

Between 40 and 50% of the time. Sounds pretty bipartisan to me&hellip.

{"commentId":2768125,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
  • 5 votes
#1.12 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:06 AM EDT
{"commentId":2768595,"authorDomain":"incredulous"}

By the half-way point McCain was tripping over words, skipping pauses, and nonsensically repeating things. He seemed tired and – from time to time – flustered by his difficulty with the text.

untrue or exaggerated, but thanks for your observations. Yesterday, you have Palin losing control of the crowd purportedly when they chanted "drill baby drill."

Here, let's do it together: drill baby drill, drill baby drill, drill baby drill

That's how long it took. Then she picked up without skipping a beat. Her timing was excellent.

{"commentId":2768595,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"incredulous"}
  • 6 votes
#1.13 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 3:05 AM EDT
{"commentId":2769190,"authorDomain":"adventurebooks"}

Brad O'Neill says:

'MCCain looked like a president. He is going to let the kids battle it out Palin and Obama while he sets forth to run the country.'

I think not. McCain failed miserably to answer the questions voters are asking. Instead, he focused on his time in North Vietnam and fear of terrorism, while offering nothing but the usual trickle-down economic policies as his solution to the economy.

Earlier in the day, McCain staffers appeared on both CNN and MSNBC promising that McCain's upcoming speech would address the issues in detail. It did not.
McCain is certainly an American hero. But he still doesn't get it.

{"commentId":2769190,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"adventurebooks"}
  • 15 votes
#1.14 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 5:22 AM EDT
{"commentId":2769388,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

untrue or exaggerated

Go through and watch the speech again TIO, but this time take off your partisan blinders before you do.

{"commentId":2769388,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
  • 8 votes
#1.15 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 6:28 AM EDT
{"commentId":2769732,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

A few good items in the news about the convention (these link to the actual sources, not my seeds of it):

How Palin Will Beat the Press; She'll run as the new Spiro Agnew.

Blurring of journalism lines in Palin story hurts public

Media on the defensive over Sarah Palin coverage

No Direct Attack from Clinton on Palin -- Yet

{"commentId":2769732,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
    #1.16 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:45 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2770886,"authorDomain":"labargelori"}

    #1.10 "I am a dem who might have considered voting for the old (no pun) McCain of 8-9 yrs ago, before he sold out to right wing zealots."

    I am in full agreement, actually. I'm also a dem, and I remember, I think it was about 6 or 7 years ago, seeing McCain on the Conan O'Brien Show. I was just starting to become interested in politics and it was the first time I'd heard of him and I thought to myself... WOW! That guy should run for president. He seemed so confident, intelligent and calm. I was impressed. What really grabbed my attention was his admitted dislike of G.W. However, 6 or 7 years down the road, McCain in office just doesn't seem like a good idea anymore. His speech last night didn't instill a whole lot of my confidence in the Republican ticket. My vote is still reserved for Obama.

    {"commentId":2770886,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"labargelori"}
    • 3 votes
    #1.17 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 9:35 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2773149,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

    He carried it off successfully and the audience seemed to respond well to him; chants of "USA! USA!" and "John Mc-Cain!" reverberated through the hall and – on more than one occasion - the Republican Nominee waited patiently and for the crowd to settle down.

    Some of the chanting seemed to throw him off and some was to cover up some protestors. Guess they don't vet them either

    {"commentId":2773149,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
      #1.18 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 11:21 AM EDT
      {"commentId":2777719,"authorDomain":"electorama"}

      He looks battered... just terrible. He looks his actual age now despite the obvious botox treatent he got with his wife last week. to make his face look smooth.

      I was a Mcacin supporter when he was in his forties, in his fifties, and sixties, but he's just too old to do the job until 2016. I mean Look at George W. He was a very young man when he took office and he is aged dramatically. It is like if Ted Kennedy ran for the other team.

      He's too old and frail to be President.. slurred his words... missed his cues. he's like Reagan after the White House.

      {"commentId":2777719,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"electorama"}
      • 2 votes
      #1.19 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:21 PM EDT
      {"commentId":2787129,"authorDomain":"rubenlruiz"}

      I listended to Mccains speech, here is what I personally viewed and learned...

      The man McCain is from a long lineage of warriors. His ancestry was resolute with war.
      Hence the man was born into war. He runs his campaign as war is his touchstone to the people!

      Born, raised and winding his life through in and about war, he tells his story...

      It does not seem to matter to him that the Vietnam War in which he served, was an imperialistic national blunder to "stop communism from taking over the world!"
      The pro war hype of that era would have the nation believe we were in grave danger- "fear" was once again the guiding light!

      I was there as a young boy. I witnessed this abomination of our nation going into war- "stop the communists, they are taking over the world!" That was the word of the day. "The domino effect will..."

      McCain, to this day feels betrayed by the American peace movement as to why the Vietnam war was lost. This is familiar ground for the war culture that now has manifest itself in the Iraq War!
      A war that McCain said we needed and voted for!

      Yet another war that will go down historically as a political assignation of our constitution and our cultural beliefs!
      Another huge loss of national equity and our beloved youth all because of political ego and the lack of political wisdom!

      Wars are won or lost by the rightness of the participants! This is something viably important that McCain, conservatives and some liberals don't grasp!

      As our nations history goes we have never lost a war when we were right but now we have lost wars because we were ideologically wrong! It's not just about military strength- its about wisdom and justice!

      McCains campaign, and his video bio are sequenced within his life of war.

      Service and gratitude of and for his country is based on his war experience.

      His biography finally sequences into his career as an AZ. senator.
      Twenty-six years of senatorial time are blurred into nothingness!

      His voting record parallels the GOP- a 10% difference from the GOP is supposed to define his presidency, difine his given name the "Maverick?"
      His record cannot be hidden, his ideology is full of contradiction- flip flops if you will!

      President Bush said, "Im the War president, Im the War president!"
      It most definitely seems there is another one named John McCain following in the wings!
      I truly hope he is not the one!

      McCain says he's different then Bush, he's not the same!
      Yet who was in the program directors chair off the convention stage as though he were directing the entire RNC proceeding?

      Karl Rove!
      McCain is the same as Bush- divisive, self-righteous, a fist-swinger with no answers for change from the destitude that his own party has created! 90%...

      {"commentId":2787129,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"rubenlruiz"}
      • 2 votes
      #1.20 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:15 PM EDT
      {"commentId":2787274,"authorDomain":"gregr2865-1"}

      That was not a slip up. If you listened to the speech you would have understood it was she worked with her hands a knows, knows how to.....teh word was not NOSE as teh Dems and Kieth Oberman like to say. Just more BS from the left.

      {"commentId":2787274,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"gregr2865-1"}
        #1.21 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:25 PM EDT
        Reply
        {"commentId":2765546,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

        I found it interesting that Brian Williams was quick to point out that the cameras were not controlled by NBC, so as to rest any fears that NBC was providing a biased coverage by continually focusing on the protesters rather than the speech.

        So if Palin was a Pitbull, what does that make McCain … a puppy? a poodle?

        {"commentId":2765546,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
        • 6 votes
        Reply#2 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:18 PM EDT
        {"commentId":2765654,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

        So more thoughts. The speech was pretty terrible, very boring. McCain lost control of crowd too often, possibly because of the protesters. He stumbled too often. There was no real theme to the speech.

        I wonder how many GOPers are hoping that the ticket was switched right now…

        {"commentId":2765654,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
        • 5 votes
        #2.1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:24 PM EDT
        {"commentId":2765868,"authorDomain":"v-shious"}

        His war record is honorable but if he is only going to hide behind it and refuse give clear sound policies he only dishonors himself.

        {"commentId":2765868,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"v-shious"}
        • 6 votes
        #2.2 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:36 PM EDT
        {"commentId":2767113,"authorDomain":"jdkramer"}

        McCain's speech, like Palin's, lacked substance. Are we Americans going to vote on negative personal attacks instead of economic strategies, again? God, I hope we have learned the lessons of the Rove-Bush tactics by now. Yet, there are those robotic idiots that feel warm and fuzzy wrapped up in the American flag without a supporting means for their families. Pathetic lambs.

        {"commentId":2767113,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"jdkramer"}
        • 6 votes
        #2.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:43 AM EDT
        {"commentId":2767232,"authorDomain":"judithod"}

        McCain's courage is grounded in his military service to this country. If you listened to him tonight, you learned that his imprisonment solidified his love of country and submerged his selfishness. McCain's "military story" is not fiction; it was a life-changing experience that changed the course of his direction. Don't diminish it. We are blessed as a nation because of people like John McCain and anyone who serves in the U.S. military.

        {"commentId":2767232,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"judithod"}
        • 11 votes
        #2.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:51 AM EDT
        {"commentId":2767235,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

        Are we Americans going to vote on negative personal attacks instead of economic strategies, again?

        I saw the negative personal attacks, but where was this economic strategies? There is not a single candidate who questions the Federal Reserve, there is not a single candidate who questions the income tax, there is not a single candidate who supports real free trade, there is not a single candidate who, there is not a single candidate who has a solid plan to bring value back to the dollar, there is not a single candidate who has a plan to contain inflation. So where are these economic strategies again?

        Or right, over at The Rally for the Republic on Tuesday.

        {"commentId":2767235,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
        • 1 vote
        #2.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:51 AM EDT
        {"commentId":2770100,"authorDomain":"ryanlardner"}

        What has Obama detailed about his economic strategy, outside of change and raise taxes on people making over 250,000. He has yet to detail anything about energy. talking about wind and solar don't count. We can't heat our houses with either.

        Adam, the value of the dollar would go up if we stopped spending so much of it on foreign oil. So if we drill here we can bring that value back up. Just like the Canadians brought up their value of their dollar.

        {"commentId":2770100,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"ryanlardner"}
        • 2 votes
        #2.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 8:27 AM EDT
        {"commentId":2770469,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

        Sigh.

        Obama's plan for the economy.


        Obama's plan on energy

        And yes you can heat your house with wind and solar. It's called electricity... you know... the stuff that powers your heat-pump?

        {"commentId":2770469,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
        • 8 votes
        #2.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 9:01 AM EDT
        {"commentId":2775382,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

        ZoolopolisHis war record is honorable but if he is only going to hide behind it and refuse give clear sound policies he only dishonors himself.

        I think John Dickerson of nailed it: McCain Gambles That His Character Is More Compelling Than Obama's Issues">

        {"commentId":2775382,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
        • 1 vote
        #2.8 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:23 PM EDT
        {"commentId":2778456,"authorDomain":"motoko"}

        I believe Obama has been pretty clear on his economic plan. Doubling the tax credits for the middle class and families with children is pretty much at the heart of it. Mandatory pension plans is also a major part of it. Criminalizing predatory lending practices, especially credit card companies and re-organizing the FED to include investment banks is also seen as a win-win. Remember, money you have in an investment bank is not currently FDIC insured if the bank goes belly up. Ironically, most people in this country have the major portion of their retirement capital in an investment bank account, not a regular bank account that is insured by the FDIC. One of the objectives of Obama economic policy is the correct that loophole.

        {"commentId":2778456,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"motoko"}
        • 1 vote
        #2.9 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:40 PM EDT
        {"commentId":2783876,"authorDomain":"Fred2"}

        The Obama middle / lower class will have a tax INCREASE!
        Any marginal tax cut will be more than offset by mandatory insurance premiums. If insurance & it's premiums are mandatory, it's as good as a tax - just using a different name.
        Net out of pocket will be BIG increase!

        {"commentId":2783876,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"Fred2"}
          #2.10 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 4:56 PM EDT
          {"commentId":2785140,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

          The Obama middle / lower class will have a tax INCREASE!

          That's a lie

          Any marginal tax cut will be more than offset by mandatory insurance premiums. If insurance & it's premiums are mandatory, it's as good as a tax - just using a different name.

          The formative policy difference between Obama and Hillary on health insurance was that Obama's plan wasn't mandatory. Nice try though.

          {"commentId":2785140,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
          • 4 votes
          #2.11 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 5:42 PM EDT
          {"commentId":2785507,"authorDomain":"MissDev"}

          Side-by-side comparison of McCain and Obama's tax plans from the non-partisan Tax Policy Center.

          {"commentId":2785507,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"MissDev"}
          • 1 vote
          #2.12 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 5:57 PM EDT
          {"commentId":2787492,"authorDomain":"gregr2865-1"}

          Kill, it is NOT a lie. I do not know how you can say that ONLY the richest 5% have investments. Therefore Obama is misleading by saying that 95% of households will get a tax cut. It addition Obama cannot possibly pay for all he is promising if all he is going to do is raise taxes for the richest 5%. I find it so amusing that the Dems keep saying that voting for McCain will bring 4 more years of the same. The economy right now is suffering from a weak dollar that has been brought on by a nation that has increased its debt over the past 8 years. Where Bush has failed us is by not living up to be a fiscally responsible Republican. In fact Bills Clinton was more fiscally responsible (one of the reasons his was a good presidency). McCain has promised to cut spending and reduce the deficit. Obama has promised spending more than any other administration in History. Spending more and increasing the size of government the way Obama wants is for more years of the same that this country can't handle. McCain will bring the fiscal responsibility that is needed back to this country. What people need to realize is that there are certain things that we can just not afford. We should not be going in to debt to get them, nor should our government be going in to debt to give them to us. WE CANNOT AFFORD ANYMORE GOVERNMENT SPENDING INCREASES. It will ruin this country. Obama does not have the basic economic sense that more government spending and raising taxes is not the answer.

          {"commentId":2787492,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"gregr2865-1"}
            #2.13 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:37 PM EDT
            {"commentId":2796852,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

            Most of the middle classes are not making a significant enough portion of their income from investments for a capital gains hike to impact them nearly as strongly as Obama's income tax reduction.

            Most of us aren't moving around (and you have to be moving it to deal with the taxes, not just sitting on it) anything approaching our annual salary in investments. I'm pretty heavily invested myself. Cap gains is a @!$%#, but it's not where the bulk of even my tax burden comes from.

            Obama cannot possibly pay for all he is promising if all he is going to do is raise taxes for the richest 5%

            Given that the upper 5% make something along the lines of 40% of the income in this country... yea he probably can.

            McCain will bring the fiscal responsibility that is needed back to this country. What people need to realize is that there are certain things that we can just not afford. We should not be going in to debt to get them, nor should our government be going in to debt to give them to us.

            I'm glad you feel that way. So...how do you feel about the fact that McCain's tax plan will result in a larger deficit than Obama's?

            {"commentId":2796852,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
            • 2 votes
            #2.14 - Sat Sep 6, 2008 2:51 PM EDT
            {"commentId":2797038,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

            Most of the middle classes are not making a significant enough portion of their income from investments for a capital gains hike to impact them nearly as strongly as Obama's income tax reduction.

            That's true for their standard savings, but not for retirement income in the form of 401(k)s, pensions and other random plans. Over 2/3rds of America now own stock.

            Given that the upper 5% make something along the lines of 40% of the income in this country... yea he probably can.

            That assumes of course that his tax increases don't harm the economy, or force the rich to move their income into tax shelters.

            But you know what, I am starting to get tired of arguing for tax for the wealthy, even if I believe in them. Because I believe in tax cuts, real tax cuts, for the middle class even more. Is it right that the middle class tax bracket is at 25%? I'd support any candidate in a second who supported reducing the under $100k tax bracket to 10% only. Now that's a tax cut that would help over a hundred million Americans, would boost the economy, and would be down right awesome. The problem is that there is not a single candidate who cares about the middle class anymore. The GOP cares only about the wealthy, and the Dems care only about the poor people they can control. Where's the middle class candidate?

            {"commentId":2797038,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
              #2.15 - Sat Sep 6, 2008 3:10 PM EDT
              {"commentId":2870074,"authorDomain":"momabyrd"}

              McCain is old school he Honors a woman. He respects and Honors no one around here with all the perversions thrown at men these days ( pretend love) everyone is confused.
              Image is not everything... be careful who you worship all obamanites!

              {"commentId":2870074,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"momabyrd"}
                #2.16 - Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:38 PM EDT
                Reply
                {"commentId":2765575,"authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}

                I for one am tired of the constant recitation of his POW record. It happened 30 years ago. Let it go.

                {"commentId":2765575,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
                • 20 votes
                Reply#3 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:20 PM EDT
                {"commentId":2765811,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

                It's the major defining aspect of his candidacy though so you're going to hear a lot more about it. McCain's POW status implicitly makes him the super-patriot, a 72 year old Captain America as it were. Hell, it's become very clear that even when he exploits that he gets a free pass.

                {"commentId":2765811,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
                • 12 votes
                #3.1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:33 PM EDT
                {"commentId":2766244,"authorDomain":"flashmcgruder"}

                Sorry, but I don't agree that being a POW makes him a "Captain America." His time as a POW was time in prison, not time on the battlefield. There is a big difference. Even when more highly decorated military with much more true military experience point out that being a POW does not make anybody qualified to be President, the Republicans act like the critic is being un-American. McCain and the other Republicans are using the POW card to slip out of criticism.

                Similarly, Palin and the Republicans will use the sexism card whenever there are valid criticisms about her.

                {"commentId":2766244,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"flashmcgruder"}
                • 11 votes
                #3.2 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:55 PM EDT
                {"commentId":2766580,"authorDomain":"MissDev"}

                Wow - tough words from Mike Stuckey...

                I like it!

                When I was listening to the POW part of his speech, I was struck by how amazing the story is... but them my cognitive skills allowed me to move on and ask "what does this have to do with the matter at hand?"

                {"commentId":2766580,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"MissDev"}
                • 9 votes
                #3.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:11 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2766903,"authorDomain":"njb"}

                I was actually typing notes about his speech while he spoke---but overall, my 1st impression was he needs to shut up about the POW thing. I grew up in a family of very noble vets, my father was one of the many young men who served under Patton, those same ones, who liberated Buchenwald, my uncle flew the hump, another uncle was a Koren POW, and many of my cousins fought in Vietnam. One was a POW. They don't talk about it. None of them did. They have very little respect for those that did.

                If it was discussed at all--it was in private. And quiet. And painful.

                What really got me going was when he ended his speech, I found I was rather hot--. I would be firing the speech writers. Am I the only one who noticed how he directly stole the theme of Hillary? Keep going...

                I'm going to actually have to sit down and compare speeches and see just how much, if any, is actually plagiarized. If not verbatim, in concept.

                In case no one remembers-it was Hillary, in her rousing speech conclusion, when you hear the dogs, keep going, when you see the torches, keep going...etc. All inspired by Harriet Tubman-who is a greater patriot than any of us probably ever could be.

                All in all--I thought the whole thing was pretty lame.

                {"commentId":2766903,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"njb"}
                • 9 votes
                #3.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:31 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2767083,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                For the umpteenth time - his status as a POW has nothing to do with what makes him remarkable and considerable for president. It was what he did during and after, though there is no reasoning with people who berate him for it. It has everything to do with who he is and how his judgment is commanded. It reflects character and his opponent has absolutely nothing in his past to compare it to.

                I wonder how many people who dismiss his story also rejected Kerry's constant reminder in 2004 that he served briefly in Vietnam? McCain left Hanoi and continued to serve for another eight years, leaving the service when it became apparent that his physical condition limited him from moving any further in the ranks and from continuing to fly. He then ran for Congress. Contrast that with Kerry who immediately returned from overseas to attack his fellow servicemen and launch his political career on a loathsome agenda that he had to obfuscate when he ran for president.

                But I don't begrudge you - if I were an Obama supporter I would be petrified of the country learning who McCain was and is and comparing that to whatever it is that Obama was and is.

                {"commentId":2767083,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                • 5 votes
                #3.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:41 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2767244,"authorDomain":"getahome"}

                I agree they need to drop the POW thing. But I feel it was important for MCCain to explain in his own words how the situation formed his character and made him a better man. I believe they should of had Romney and the others talking the economy but overall I thought the speech was good.

                {"commentId":2767244,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"getahome"}
                • 2 votes
                #3.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:51 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2767354,"authorDomain":"judithod"}

                Why don't you people get it? John McCain's experience as a POW, which most of us would never have survived, defined his character and made him the reformer and fighter that he is. He has honorably served his country for years in both the military and in Congress. In comparison, Obama has done nothing except give rousing speeches. The choice is between experience and rhetoric.

                {"commentId":2767354,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"judithod"}
                • 10 votes
                #3.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:59 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2767555,"authorDomain":"mikerupert"}

                Judith, some people see the choice as actually between a man who voted 90% of the time with a president who many now consider the worst and most ineffective we've ever had, with an individual who's obviously very intelligent and had the foresight and balls to say - when it was politically unpopular - that the Iraq war was wrong. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld have more experience than anyone in Washington; yet they're mostly considered failures now. There's a difference between experience and wisdom, Judith. And Mr. McCain has shown that the majority of his decisions these last 8 years were wrong.

                {"commentId":2767555,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"mikerupert"}
                • 7 votes
                #3.8 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:13 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2767592,"authorDomain":"tabhi2004"}

                MCCain is a war hero and everyone knows it but that does not make him fit for the highest office of the country and he keeps talking on that same point not discussing anything that going to make us better the NAS fell 74 points and the DOW is down 344 points I don't see how exp;aining how you were a war hero and fight , fight fight is going to help.

                {"commentId":2767592,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"tabhi2004"}
                • 5 votes
                #3.9 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:16 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2768255,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                tabhi, you might have a point here, but instead of focusing on what doesn't qualify one for president, then please state what you think the single biggest one or two qualifying factors a candidate should possess to consider him fit?

                I ask this because McCain isn't running as a war hero in the sense that he flew a mission or saved his buddies from a grenade - he is a hero because of the choices he made in the face of unspeakable horrors, strength and his ability to overcome what would have ruined most people for life and come out, according to him, a better person than went he went in. McCain, in this context, represents the best of what Americans can be and that most of us would hope we could live up to when in reality most of us couldn't. That alone carries significant weight to me and putting raw political experience (of which he also dwarfs his opponent on) aside, qualifies him more than certainly any president in my life time.

                {"commentId":2768255,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                • 6 votes
                #3.10 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:19 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2769569,"authorDomain":"raym"}

                Answer this. Mccain did exactly what we would expect of any American serviceman. It does not make him more of a hero than anyone else that served this country. He just did the right thing. The main reason he got all the publicity when he came home was because he was the son of an Admiral. Which is also the only reason he got into Annapolis, and was allowed to graduate although he was substandard material.

                {"commentId":2769569,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"raym"}
                • 5 votes
                #3.11 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:14 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2771136,"authorDomain":"doubled9909"}

                Hey Mike, I don't think a war hero's record like that of John McCain can be repeated enough. It's because of the men & women like him that you can comfortably and freely sit at your computer today and type your messages. I know I can't be reminded of his courage and love our great country enough!!! Sounds like the history of our country and the people that fought for it mean nothing to you!

                {"commentId":2771136,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"doubled9909"}
                • 3 votes
                #3.12 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 9:53 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2771910,"authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}

                If it's important to you, great. I merely said that I was tired of hearing about it. It's quite a leap to say that because of that sentiment the history of our country and people who fought for it mean nothing to me. And, let's be honest. There was nothing about the Vietnam war that protected the freedom of Americans in any more than a theoretical way. It was a huge tragedy that senselessly cost tens of thousands of American lives. Truly heroic contributions to the American way of life were being made at the time by journalists who exposed the illegal acts of the Johnson and Nixon administrations and war protesters who were gunned down at places like Kent State.

                {"commentId":2771910,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
                • 5 votes
                #3.13 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:38 AM EDT
                {"commentId":2773497,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                Ray:

                Mccain did exactly what we would expect of any American serviceman. It does not make him more of a hero than anyone else that served this country. He just did the right thing.

                Wrong, he did what we wouldn't expect of any human being. That kind of statement reflects a gross under-appreciation for what him and any POW went through.

                Mike:

                There was nothing about the Vietnam war that protected the freedom of Americans in any more than a theoretical way.

                What this has to do with anything is questionable. McCain didn't launch the Vietnam War. But he performed admirably when his calling came. I think the nation can tolerate two more months of hearing about it - we can argue if McCain deserves to be president, but I think he has at least earned that.

                Truly heroic contributions to the American way of life were being made at the time by journalists who exposed the illegal acts of the Johnson and Nixon administrations and war protesters who were gunned down at places like Kent State.

                You're tired of hearing about McCain's past but this represents true heroism to you? When was the last brave journalist or protester elected president?

                I wouldn't be so bold as to say service means nothing to you but I would, using your own words, interpret that it means little more than being a journalist or a hippie.

                {"commentId":2773497,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                  #3.14 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":2775303,"authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}

                  Otto -- You're exactly right. I indeed feel that there are many Americans who never served in the military who do things for their country that are just as important as serving in the military. For instance, I happen to be personally more inspired by lots of average people that I've met working as volunteers in disaster areas than I am by John McCain.

                  {"commentId":2775303,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
                  • 4 votes
                  #3.15 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":2777604,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                  That's great and those people should be respected, but it's still mind boggling to put people who volunteer in disaster areas and reporters and demonstrators anywhere in the same realm as someone like McCain. Give me an individual story that shows true personal sacrifice from these people and I'll agree - to the point where I won't degrade their heroism by comparing them to bus drivers and airline attendants who might have to make hard decisions at times too.

                  I question if you have a true understanding of what McCain went through and what he did and how he came out of it, if you are able to even attempt to put yourself in his shoes for five minutes. Five minutes is probably more than the vast majority of us could tolerate.

                  When a journalist or a hippie or a volunteer runs for president, then we can measure their qualifications based on that, as we are doing now with McCain.

                  {"commentId":2777604,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                    #3.16 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":2779283,"authorDomain":"MissDev"}

                    @OttO -

                    How about the three boys who, when police and SWAT were standing around trying to "make a plan" returned to Columbine High School not once, but several times to lead people to safety? No training, no armor, pure and complete courage and selflessness. I put them, and others who are faced with incredible situations and perform heroically in a whole different category. You know what to expect, at least in a rudimentary way, when you go to war - but to be faced with a similar situation in school and are able to make it through with courage and heroism, that takes a different sort of person.

                    But I still wouldn't vote for those folks based solely on that.

                    {"commentId":2779283,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"MissDev"}
                    • 2 votes
                    #3.17 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:07 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":2779709,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                    There is a difference between saying that you wouldn't vote for someone based solely on that (of course I would agree) and what is being said throughout these boards in that it is completely irrelevant. Of course it's relevant and most people who dismiss that do so because they are in the bag for Obama and they are threatened by McCain's story.

                    Sure Miss Dev, but it's something that identifies their character, that if they ran and their opponent had nothing like this to reference in his or her past, than isn't it reasonable that it would be a plus to a candidate? Regardless, there is still a difference between risk and sacrifice (until the two mesh together). Risk can be clumsy or poorly judged or wrongly motivated. Sacrifice is always honorable.

                    You and Mr. Stuckey have inspired a response:

                    The Right Stuff: McCain, Heroism And The Presidency

                    {"commentId":2779709,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                      #3.18 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:27 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":2787677,"authorDomain":"gregr2865-1"}

                      I think you are ALL missing the point. Yes it is great he served his country, however the main point here is sacrifice. McCain will endure discomfort to fight for what he believes in. The meaning of the vietnow war is not relevant. What is relevant is that he believed in his country and fellow soldiers that he stayed to endure what many of us could never endure. Then as a Senator he consistently took abuse from his party because he did not blindly follow the party line. He has a proven track record of fighting for what is right regardless of whether or not he would gain personally from it. Contrast that with Obama:

                      1) He stays in a church that preaches bigotry and hate (BTW I do not believe that he shares the sentiment) and does not stand up against it for fear it would hurt his political career
                      2) He does not stand up against an unrepentant terrorist and befriends him so that he can further his political career
                      3) He comes through one of the most corrupt political machines (Chicago) and never raises his hand or points out any of the wrong doings so that he can further his political career.

                      You better hope that your interests personally benefit Obama's or you will be left behind.

                      McCain's POW speaks to his character and that is why it is being brought up, not because being a war hero makes you a better President (it does not necessarily)

                      {"commentId":2787677,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"gregr2865-1"}
                        #3.19 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:49 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":2795455,"authorDomain":"alteredest001"}

                        One of my favorite lines from the movie Jarhead. (not an exact quote). "did your daddy fight in Viet Nam?"

                        "Yes"

                        "did he ever talk about it?"

                        "Just once"

                        "Good, then he was tellin' the truth".

                        {"commentId":2795455,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"alteredest001"}
                          #3.20 - Sat Sep 6, 2008 12:34 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":2796434,"authorDomain":"raym"}

                          I don't really like to talk about my experience as a POW because it would look like I was bragging or looking for sympathy or for political gain. So, other than bring it up every time I open my mouth I really don't want to talk about it. By the way did I tell you I was a hero. John Mccain

                          Real hero's don't don't have to remind everyone constantly. It make's them look less heroic.

                          {"commentId":2796434,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"raym"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #3.21 - Sat Sep 6, 2008 2:13 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":2805585,"authorDomain":"MissDev"}

                          The fact of the matter is that the McCain campaign emphasizes his POW status so often to pander to the far-right in the party who don't like his "maverick" ways. The right loves a military man (unless he's a liberal - then they try to discredit that service) because it shows a dedication and willingness to sacrifice for your country. But military service alone does not a leader make. But when there's little else to offer leadership-wise, of course they'll spend their time and efforts focusing on it.

                          {"commentId":2805585,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"MissDev"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #3.22 - Sun Sep 7, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":2933039,"authorDomain":"fromyview"}

                          Look, I'm with Micheal Moore on McCain's POW status. The man is no hero. He under his country's leadership killed innocent Vietnam citizens. The Vietnamese never did anything to Americans. Does that sound familiar? McCain was imprisoned because he was a war criminal. He or any other soldier should never be tortured, but he had to be imprisoned to stop him from committing more crimes against innocent people. The real heroes were the activists who protested to end the war on Vietnam.

                          {"commentId":2933039,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"fromyview"}
                            #3.23 - Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:31 AM EDT
                            Reply
                            {"commentId":2765592,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                            Did anyone eles see Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC getting bombarded with ballons while trying to report?
                            This is hilarious

                            {"commentId":2765592,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                            • 5 votes
                            Reply#4 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:20 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":2773310,"authorDomain":"lele"}

                            Yeah - that was hilarious! She didn't seem as depressed as Wed night either. On Wed she seemed so mad she couldn't even say Giuliani when she was done interviewing him.

                            {"commentId":2773310,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"lele"}
                            • 2 votes
                            #4.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 11:27 AM EDT
                            {"commentId":2775505,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                            That's because Rudy was lying directly to her acting like being mayor of NYC is the same as being mayor of a town in Alaska.

                            I can't wait to see what the Daily show will do with Andrea being bombarded by blowhards balloons.

                            {"commentId":2775505,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                            • 2 votes
                            #4.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:27 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":2787763,"authorDomain":"gregr2865-1"}

                            She has no business being in journalism. She is so in the tank for Obama it is not funny. That is why she was so mad Wednesday. She new the Republicans changed the momentum. Oberman was pissed too. ITS PUNDIT DAMN IT not PUNDANT...lol what a fool!

                            {"commentId":2787763,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"gregr2865-1"}
                              #4.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:54 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              {"commentId":2765657,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                              The protests was the highlight for me just because I hate how staged these things are

                              Hope someone from the vine was inside there and can tell us what really happened. Guess they didn't vet the attendees?

                              Ah, the New York Times says this:

                              10:26 p.m. | 'Ground Noise and Static' A small protest started to erupt in the hall but the crowd is primed to rebut it. They started chanting "USA!" "USA!" and drowned out the shouts.

                              They seemed to be protesting the war, but it was hard to tell. "Please don't be diverted by the ground noise and static," he says.

                              The demonstrators, in sharp pink dresses, are being dragged up through the press stands, still making their small shouts of protest. The crowd chants again.

                              10:24 p.m. | Why Can't We Be Friends? Now here's the payoff for having an attack dog as your V.P. (or a pitbull in lipstick as the case may be). After Ms. Palin tore into Mr. Obama last night, Mr. McCain gets to take the high road: "

                              {"commentId":2765657,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                              • 3 votes
                              Reply#5 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:25 PM EDT
                              {"commentId":2765783,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

                              I think it will be interesting to see how the protesters did get in. With some of the media flip-ups during the RNC, the last thing they need to find out is that the protesters are holding media credentials. That would basically confirm the GOP's paranoia that the media is out to get them.

                              {"commentId":2765783,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
                              • 4 votes
                              #5.1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:31 PM EDT
                              {"commentId":2766748,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

                              Well, I presumed based on your comments yesterday about being able to wander onto the floor of the convention without too much difficulty or challenge that security at the RNC was notably less strict than that at the DNC. (Ironic?)

                              {"commentId":2766748,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
                              • 4 votes
                              #5.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:21 AM EDT
                              {"commentId":2766911,"authorDomain":"oksnoey"}

                              The protests were interestingly timed. It almost seemed like a staged move. I would have loved to see what his teleprompter told him to say...

                              {"commentId":2766911,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"oksnoey"}
                                #5.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:31 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2766962,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

                                Well, we wondered onto the floor when nothing was happening, and certainly nothing was being televised. We also had our credentials checked to get into the seating area, to get into the arena itself and to get past the outside perimeter (they were scanned there).

                                Hell they wouldn't even give Ron Paul a floor pass because they thought he'd make a commotion. Even in the arena he was required to be chaperoned.

                                So there is no way that these protesters did not have some kind of credentials. More than likely they may have actually volunteered for the event and were moles, or maybe they even worked for the Xcel Center. But who knows…

                                {"commentId":2766962,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
                                • 5 votes
                                #5.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:34 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2767086,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

                                My preferred explanation is Democratic ninjas.

                                {"commentId":2767086,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
                                • 5 votes
                                #5.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:41 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2767729,"authorDomain":"walt857"}

                                If you noticed, there was one protester who apparently was left alone, after ininitial rush to grab him. Why? He was a Veteran, a member of Iraq vets against the war. He was holding a sign that said "McCain votes against vets". I suppose this was in reference to the bill for increased benefits the he voted against. (He said later that it would give them too many benefits and they wouldn't reenlist.) They wouldn't take the risk of dragging a vet out of the hall! I am surprised the media did not seem to be interested in this.

                                {"commentId":2767729,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"walt857"}
                                • 9 votes
                                #5.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:27 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2768139,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

                                I did notice that. I also noticed they didn't mind jumping the Code Pink lady. Sexism? ;-)

                                {"commentId":2768139,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
                                • 4 votes
                                #5.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:07 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2775581,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                                We need to approach both of those protestors about joining newsvine to tell their stories from their p.o.v.

                                {"commentId":2775581,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                                • 2 votes
                                #5.8 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2778633,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                                Speaking of the protestors looks like they won't be charged (which surprises me)

                                {"commentId":2778633,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                                • 1 vote
                                #5.9 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:44 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2784203,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

                                Charging the protesters only keeps them in the spotlight longer and makes mini-martyrs our of them.

                                {"commentId":2784203,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
                                • 1 vote
                                #5.10 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 5:07 PM EDT
                                Reply
                                {"commentId":2765765,"authorDomain":"poetic-blue"}

                                Could this have been any worse?? I rather would have listened to the protestors!

                                {"commentId":2765765,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"poetic-blue"}
                                • 3 votes
                                Reply#6 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:30 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2765848,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

                                He could have fell down…

                                I actually think McCain kinda compares to Bob Dole. Both had problems with speeches to larger audiences, there is the age thing, the arm handicap thing, and both were far better at speaking one-to-one or to small groups in "retail" politics. Bob Dole actually ended up being quite funny when he became a guest member of the Daily Show (pre-John Stewart days) after the '96 election.

                                {"commentId":2765848,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
                                • 4 votes
                                #6.1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:35 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2765905,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

                                Don't forget his Visa commercials. Hi-freaking-larious.

                                {"commentId":2765905,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
                                • 2 votes
                                #6.2 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:37 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2766952,"authorDomain":"njb"}

                                1st thing I thought was...oh gawd...not the green background again....

                                {"commentId":2766952,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"njb"}
                                • 2 votes
                                #6.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:34 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2769505,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

                                I thought the same thing njb. I'm sure Colbert will have fun with that.

                                {"commentId":2769505,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
                                • 3 votes
                                #6.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 6:57 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2775641,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                                I rather would have listened to the protestors

                                Me too. Or had comedy central do commentary during the event.

                                {"commentId":2775641,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                                • 1 vote
                                #6.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
                                Reply
                                {"commentId":2765857,"authorDomain":"cdamico1"}

                                McCain delivered a very good speech the was well founded with experience, honesty, and bi-partisanship. Let's face it Obama doesn't have near the experience, courage, wisdom, or patriotism that this man has. McCain is most certainly highly qualified to lead our country out of the difficult times we face.

                                {"commentId":2765857,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"cdamico1"}
                                • 5 votes
                                Reply#7 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:35 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2765954,"authorDomain":"v-shious"}

                                The John McCain of today is a sad shadow of his heroic youth. After he lost to W he realized he had to sell his soul to the Neocons to be pres. Now all that's left of his youth is a hollow shell that hides the bile poured into him by the Neocons.

                                {"commentId":2765954,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"v-shious"}
                                • 8 votes
                                #7.1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:40 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2766023,"authorDomain":"thedoc"}

                                So if he has the experience, courage, wisdom and patriotism to "lead our country out of the difficult times we face," then where was he when our country was heading INTO these difficult times? After all, he's been a Senator and Congressman longer than Obama. Surely his experience and wisdom could have been of some use. Or was he just saving it until now?

                                {"commentId":2766023,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thedoc"}
                                • 4 votes
                                #7.2 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:44 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2766317,"authorDomain":"cdamico1"}

                                I doubt that he had much to do with the greedy underfunded home buying idiots of the last few years. He has also pushed for a better solution to the Iraq war than Obamas weak give up and run attitude. He is not in favor of taxing the daylights out of those that invest in businesses that create the good paying jobs that we need and he supports an energy agenda that is realistic and doable. With Obama we just inflate the tires and all will be well. By the way I havn't seen anything great out of the Democratic controlled house the last two years. Have you?

                                {"commentId":2766317,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"cdamico1"}
                                • 6 votes
                                #7.3 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:58 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2766632,"authorDomain":"thedoc"}

                                "By the way I havn't seen anything great out of the Democratic controlled house the last two years. Have you?"

                                Yes. His name is Barack Obama.

                                {"commentId":2766632,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thedoc"}
                                • 1 vote
                                #7.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:14 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2766801,"authorDomain":"John-4711"}

                                Chuck - The Democrats hold the house and senate for 2 years, but have to pass legislation that will pass a Dubya veto - sort of limiting. And Obama's suggestion to inflate your tires is a perfect example of a great solution - it yields 3 - 5% reduction in consumption immediately, will immediately put downward pressure on oil and gas prices, has lasting impact and compared to drilling - it's free. The republicans don't get it. McCain said tonight that he favored taking all the good ideas wherever they came from if they helped move us forward. This brilliant idea jumped up and tapped him on the end of the nose - and his response was to belittle it.

                                {"commentId":2766801,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"John-4711"}
                                • 3 votes
                                #7.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:25 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2766843,"authorDomain":"duchess1946"}

                                McCain delivered a very good speech the was well founded with experience, honesty, and bi-partisanship. Let's face it Obama doesn't have near the experience, courage, wisdom, or patriotism that this man has. McCain is most certainly highly qualified to lead our country out of the difficult times we face.

                                I question the judgement of anyone who is an adulterer (although he is old now and may regret that he was that way although I doubt it because of the jokes that he tells) taken part in protecting a group who swindled elderly people out of their life savings (Keating Five), collaborated with the enemy in Viet Nam (which would probably never have been heard from him had it not been reported by VietNam veterans), has a temper and is not very intelligent.

                                I also question the judgement of people who would put an adulterous, drug addicted, mean-spirited woman who denies the existence of a sister like she is a piece of trash and who puts an adopted child in front of the cameras to boost her esteem as a person that has family values.
                                It really insults me because this child is obviously there just to make things look like they are not what they are.

                                IMHO, both of these people need to slither back to wherever they came from and pull the Pit Bull along with them.

                                {"commentId":2766843,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"duchess1946"}
                                • 4 votes
                                #7.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:27 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2767216,"authorDomain":"jdkramer"}

                                Chuck,
                                Good point, if you are looking for talking points with no substance; the same folks that gave Bush two terms of ineptness. There is a community college in your location. Check in for some intelligence.

                                {"commentId":2767216,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"jdkramer"}
                                  #7.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:49 AM EDT
                                  {"commentId":2767708,"authorDomain":"tabhi2004"}

                                  I disagree with that McCain says he does not know much about the economy and Obama does Palin does really know that much either since she was mayor in the town and left it in the red. so there is no help there either.

                                  {"commentId":2767708,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"tabhi2004"}
                                    #7.8 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:26 AM EDT
                                    {"commentId":2769684,"authorDomain":"j-helmich"}

                                    err, Obama's spent most of the last two years on the road to the presidency, not being involved in Senate business. True, McCain's been taking the same road but at least at some point in his senate career he actually accomplished something other than promoting himself.

                                    As far as not wanting more of the last eight years of the same, let's not forget that the last two of them were completely stymied by Democratic competition vs. bipartisan cooperation. As far as I'm concerned we're no better off with energy or the economy under their watch too.

                                    I'm an independent, not a party line voter. After spending two weeks watching both conventions I feel more comfortable with McCain standing up to do what's best for the country than Obama who toes the party line in all things.

                                    {"commentId":2769684,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"j-helmich"}
                                    • 1 vote
                                    #7.9 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:39 AM EDT
                                    Reply
                                    {"commentId":2765888,"authorDomain":"bamvol"}
                                    Brian-428420Deleted
                                    {"commentId":2765918,"authorDomain":"snl-84"}

                                    He has worn out his POW story, it has lost its affect.

                                    {"commentId":2765918,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"snl-84"}
                                    • 3 votes
                                    Reply#9 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:38 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":2765949,"authorDomain":"LadysmithforObama"}

                                    The protesters were the real excitement in the auditorium tonight. The delegates were barely responding. Gov. Palin caused some excitement when she was introduced but that was about it. Out of curiosity, could Cindy McCain have been drugged/drunk? She seemed thick-tongued, slurry and slack-eyed during her speech.

                                    {"commentId":2765949,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"LadysmithforObama"}
                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#10 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:40 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":2765990,"authorDomain":"v-shious"}

                                    I had a scary thought. Maybe the delegates really want Palin as Pres. and are waiting for him to die.

                                    {"commentId":2765990,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"v-shious"}
                                    • 3 votes
                                    #10.1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:42 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":2766024,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

                                    Maybe he can help by promising to serve only one term, setting up Palin for 2012 win or lose.

                                    The strategy could work. He can then make his whole candidacy about victory in Iraq, and promise to either bring that victory in for years or step aside and let someone else have a shot.

                                    {"commentId":2766024,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
                                      #10.2 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:44 PM EDT
                                      {"commentId":2766030,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

                                      Apparently they really responded towards the end, so much so that you couldn't hear McCain inside the arena.

                                      {"commentId":2766030,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
                                        #10.3 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:44 PM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2766484,"authorDomain":"cdamico1"}

                                        Protesters a convention like this are clessless people that need a good lesson in respect. People that that take pleasure in this are truly sad indeed. Anyone with character would respect where they are and act in a mature way. How desperate and frustrated they must be to act like that.

                                        {"commentId":2766484,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"cdamico1"}
                                        • 6 votes
                                        #10.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:06 AM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2767252,"authorDomain":"jdkramer"}

                                        I was hoping for McCain to offer up Cindy for a topless contest to attract funders for this floundering Republican candidate. This has been a circus event of outstanding proportions.

                                        {"commentId":2767252,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"jdkramer"}
                                        • 1 vote
                                        #10.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:52 AM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2767357,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                                        The delegates were barely responding.

                                        Sorry Ladysmith, I was sitting forty feet away from the delegates and they were passionate and loud and excited.

                                        {"commentId":2767357,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                                        • 4 votes
                                        #10.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:59 AM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2767419,"authorDomain":"judithod"}

                                        Can Democrats only made personal attacks? Do you understand or even care about the issues? No wonder you're under the spell of the "American Idol."

                                        {"commentId":2767419,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"judithod"}
                                        • 4 votes
                                        #10.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:04 AM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2771495,"authorDomain":"patinniss1"}

                                        Yes Judith, we care about the issues. That's why we know that a courageous POW doth not a President make.

                                        {"commentId":2771495,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"patinniss1"}
                                        • 1 vote
                                        #10.8 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:15 AM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2773549,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                                        A courageous community organizer is what this country needs!

                                        {"commentId":2773549,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                                          #10.9 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 11:34 AM EDT
                                          {"commentId":2775994,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                                          The OttO ShowThe delegates were barely responding.
                                          Sorry Ladysmith, I was sitting forty feet away from the delegates and they were passionate and loud and excited.

                                          noticed this yesterday from the ny times blog of the event:

                                          10:39 p.m. | Sleepy? Our colleague Patrick Healy reports from the floor: There is a delegate in the Utah section and a delegate in Puerto Rico who are both drooping, eyes closed - look asleep - both are men.

                                          {"commentId":2775994,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                                            #10.10 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:39 PM EDT
                                            {"commentId":2777291,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                                            Okay? A couple of hung over delegates? Seriously, two out of the thousands crowded in and around the delegates is supposed to represent something?

                                            {"commentId":2777291,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                                              #10.11 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
                                              Reply
                                              {"commentId":2765996,"authorDomain":"lrsndn9"}

                                              The speech was boring.

                                              While I honor and respect his military service and sacrifices, I am getting tired of hearing his POW story.

                                              {"commentId":2765996,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"lrsndn9"}
                                                Reply#11 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:42 PM EDT
                                                {"commentId":2766013,"authorDomain":"lrsndn9"}

                                                The speech was boring.

                                                While I honor and respect his military service and sacrifices, I am getting real tired of hearing his POW story over and over.

                                                {"commentId":2766013,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"lrsndn9"}
                                                • 1 vote
                                                Reply#12 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:43 PM EDT
                                                {"commentId":2767375,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                                                Then I question if you really respect it.

                                                {"commentId":2767375,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                                                • 5 votes
                                                #12.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:00 AM EDT
                                                {"commentId":2769630,"authorDomain":"raym"}

                                                Once again. Mccain did nothing that wouldn't be expected of any American service man. If he had not been shot down and held POW he definatly would not have had a distinguised career in the navy, He was definatly an under achiever, He would never have obtained the rank of his father or grandfather.

                                                {"commentId":2769630,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"raym"}
                                                • 1 vote
                                                #12.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:28 AM EDT
                                                {"commentId":2771822,"authorDomain":"finalcut"}

                                                He didn't obtain the rank of his father and grandfather. Sure he obtained some of them but not the highest.

                                                As a vet myself I am in awe of how anyone survives that many years as a POW. I appreciate the changes that experience must have had on McCain but I also don't need to be hit over the head with it. I understand John, I really do - now please tell me how the man you are today is going to lead our nation should you be elected President.

                                                {"commentId":2771822,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"finalcut"}
                                                • 1 vote
                                                #12.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:33 AM EDT
                                                {"commentId":2776187,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                                                Didn't Grant get elected president because of his military? That turned out great, right?

                                                {"commentId":2776187,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                                                  #12.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:44 PM EDT
                                                  {"commentId":2777340,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                                                  I understand John, I really do - now please tell me how the man you are today is going to lead our nation should you be elected President.

                                                  I think that's the point of his story...

                                                  {"commentId":2777340,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                                                    #12.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:12 PM EDT
                                                    {"commentId":2861689,"authorDomain":"okayhon"}

                                                    The Otto Show...
                                                    Clearly you are a one issue voter. The only thing that matters to you is the fact that he flew a plane, got shot down and fell into enemy hands. He wasn't a squadron leader, etc. That doesn't automatically make him suitable to lead this country.
                                                    No one that I listened to even spoke of the issues. I didn't learn much, other than the fact that I really feel pretty good about supporting Barack Obama.

                                                    {"commentId":2861689,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"okayhon"}
                                                      #12.6 - Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:22 PM EDT
                                                      Reply
                                                      {"commentId":2766079,"authorDomain":"v-shious"}

                                                      David Gregory is saying that McCain is now the leader of the Republican party. Unfortunately, in my opinion he became their leader by surrendering to them. He didn't revolutionize the party he conformed to it. He is no longer the maverick, he is the establishment.

                                                      {"commentId":2766079,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"v-shious"}
                                                      • 3 votes
                                                      Reply#13 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:47 PM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":2770430,"authorDomain":"snotrag-dave"}

                                                      Z...

                                                      Exactly true!

                                                      "McCain 2000" is long gone. The maverick is history.

                                                      "McCain 2008" is GWB wearing a McCain Halloween costume.

                                                      The once notable John McCain decided long ago that he would do anything to become POTUS. Ambition for the office has taken over, and he has agreed to bend over and take one for the team just to get that chance.

                                                      John McCain is a broken man... destroyed by the Neo-Con Re-Thug-licans that hijacked the party.

                                                      If McCain loses... and I expect he will... it will further devastate him, possibly to the point of no return.

                                                      Sorry John... but I can't vote for you. Not after you sold your soul.

                                                      {"commentId":2770430,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"snotrag-dave"}
                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #13.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 8:57 AM EDT
                                                      Reply
                                                      {"commentId":2766133,"authorDomain":"KNAZ"}

                                                      He is not the most eloquent person, but the message was great. He used his experience as a POW only as a basis of what has developed him. He's not asking for your vote because he was a POW. I truly believe some in here hoped he went attack dog crazy like Biden, just so they could have something to attack him with. He didn't, so they say boring. You ask for bipartisan, he speaks about bipartisan and you dismiss the message. What a bunch of friggin hypocrites.

                                                      {"commentId":2766133,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"KNAZ"}
                                                      • 6 votes
                                                      Reply#14 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:49 PM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":2767436,"authorDomain":"jdkramer"}

                                                      Yes, KNAZ. He was a POW!!! He lost his A-4 over Hanoi and, instead of ramming it into Ho Chi Minh's office, or pulling out his side-arm 45 to pop the "crowd" confronting him, he GAVE UP! If he is the DIE FOR AMERICA son he claims to be, why didn't he?
                                                      This is FAIR GAME after what Kerry had to put up with in '04. Karl Rove got you BY THE SHORT HAIRS.

                                                      And a note on Palin: her daugther's a whore by the "Religious Right's" assessment and she is under investigation for abuse of power. She is a ditz with a tight butt and her husband is a traitor to the American republic!

                                                      {"commentId":2767436,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"jdkramer"}
                                                      • 2 votes
                                                      #14.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:05 AM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":2767801,"authorDomain":"tabhi2004"}

                                                      and the National Enquire is running a story on Sarah Palin and how she is or was having an affair with her husband business partner, Now is this going to be another Edwards story they should have vetted her more.

                                                      {"commentId":2767801,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"tabhi2004"}
                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #14.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:33 AM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":2767835,"authorDomain":"originalsin3670"}

                                                      Well. he lied anyway about Obama. Saying that he did not go across parties to get bills passed. You should be ashamed of yourself for falling for that same crap. Bipartisan my a**. what a joke.

                                                      {"commentId":2767835,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"originalsin3670"}
                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #14.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:36 AM EDT
                                                      {"commentId":2767937,"authorDomain":"nzo4re"}

                                                      Wow JK!

                                                      You're a real class act, aren't you?
                                                      I'm sure your fellow liberals are really proud of you and your foul mouth.

                                                      Try growing up a little and engage in an intelligent debate.

                                                      {"commentId":2767937,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"nzo4re"}
                                                        #14.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:45 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2768093,"authorDomain":"pamela861"}

                                                        I agree his message was great. Unfortunately, many refused to hear it. This is not a competition based on presentation skills. The finest oration in the world is not going to protect us from terrorist, and should that conversation become necessary I'd much prefer a leader who can get right to the point than one who can speak eloquently but compromise the safety of our nation.

                                                        {"commentId":2768093,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"pamela861"}
                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #14.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:02 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2768528,"authorDomain":"indiprod"}

                                                        George W. Bush promised bipartisanship, as I remember, in the 2000 campaign. Look where that got us.

                                                        {"commentId":2768528,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"indiprod"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:57 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2770570,"authorDomain":"snotrag-dave"}

                                                        Indiprod...

                                                        George W. Bush promised bipartisanship, as I remember, in the 2000 campaign. Look where that got us.

                                                        Indeed he did, and he delivered on that promise. The poor and middle-class receive the same 'up yours' treatment from the Bush/Cheney administration regardless of party affiliation.

                                                        {"commentId":2770570,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"snotrag-dave"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 9:10 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2771894,"authorDomain":"finalcut"}

                                                        JK you clearly speak as a person who has no experience at all. When he was shot down and captured you are suggesting he should have basically committed suicide - that is absurd.

                                                        McCain lived to fight another day. He, and all the others like him, were dealt a @!$%# hand and they had to make the best of it - they had to help each other survive; by killing himself (via an empty gesture with his .45) he may very well have doomed some of his other POWs to death (who knows how much strength and hope some of his fellows took from McCains bravado?)

                                                        To denigrate the fact that he was a POW is an insult to pretty much every Vet who has ever known war. Your comments are sickening and not worthy of publication and I hope they are collapsed.

                                                        {"commentId":2771894,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"finalcut"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.8 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:37 AM EDT
                                                        Reply
                                                        {"commentId":2766187,"authorDomain":"gedanken"}

                                                        How did McCain do?

                                                        McCain did very well. Which means, of course, that the Republicans did not like it.

                                                        The wrong-way Republicans should have picked McCain in 2000. Now the damaged has been done and McCain is too old.

                                                        {"commentId":2766187,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"gedanken"}
                                                        • 3 votes
                                                        Reply#15 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:52 PM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2767386,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                                                        McCain did very well. Which means, of course, that the Republicans did not like it.

                                                        Could you elaborate on this, please?

                                                        {"commentId":2767386,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #15.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:01 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2767499,"authorDomain":"judithod"}

                                                        And world leaders Ghandi, Churchill, DeGaulle, and Adenauer were "old" too. With age comes experience, and most importantly, wisdom.

                                                        {"commentId":2767499,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"judithod"}
                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #15.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:09 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2767775,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

                                                        Everyone gets old eventually. Do you know when Gandhi started his philosophy nonviolent resistance? When he was 36, 11 years younger than Obama is now. Churchill was an active leader throughout his entire life, not just when he was "old". Charles de Gaulle was only 50 when he took over as liaison to the British in WW2, just 3 years older than Obama is now.

                                                        Wisdom is not a monopoly of the elderly, and some elderly people decidedly do not exhibit wisdom. It's just silly to argue or imply that only "old" people can be wise or good leaders.

                                                        {"commentId":2767775,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
                                                        • 3 votes
                                                        #15.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:31 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2768084,"authorDomain":"gedanken"}

                                                        Could you elaborate on this, please?

                                                        The sameness of the Republican Party delegates reminds me of the former National Party of South Africa.

                                                        McCain tried to speak to America. The Republican delegates wanted McCain to speak to the "Afrikaners".

                                                        {"commentId":2768084,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"gedanken"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #15.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:01 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2768174,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                                                        I think I get what you are implying but I'm not getting where you are coming up with it?

                                                        {"commentId":2768174,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #15.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:11 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2768513,"authorDomain":"theottoshow"}

                                                        Everyone gets old eventually. Do you know when Gandhi started his philosophy nonviolent resistance? When he was 36, 11 years younger than Obama is now. Churchill was an active leader throughout his entire life, not just when he was "old". Charles de Gaulle was only 50 when he took over as liaison to the British in WW2, just 3 years older than Obama is now.

                                                        And McCain was 46 when he started his political career.

                                                        Does your argument reject the idea that Obama will probably be a wiser man in 26 years than he is today?

                                                        {"commentId":2768513,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"theottoshow"}
                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #15.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:54 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2768598,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

                                                        And McCain was 46 when he started his political career.

                                                        There you go. Age is completely bipartisan.

                                                        Does your argument reject the idea that Obama will probably be a wiser man in 26 years than he is today?

                                                        I think it would reject the idea that Obama will necessarily be wiser in 26 years than he is today. He may be or he may not be. I think he probably will be, but he strikes me as pretty wise right now. John McCain, on the other hand, seems to me to be backsliding. ;-)

                                                        {"commentId":2768598,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
                                                        • 5 votes
                                                        #15.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 3:05 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2775713,"authorDomain":"gedanken"}

                                                        Well, here are some readers comments after Giuliani and Palin harangues:


                                                        On Wednesday night, I watched the Republican convention, and I ultimately had to leave the room. Between Rudolph W. Giuliani and Sarah Palin, the level of mockery, ridicule and poison left me almost speechless. Sadly, not only was this rhetoric acceptable, but it was also wildly applauded and cheered.

                                                        Choosing the most disturbing aspect of the Republican National Convention on Wednesday night might be difficult for some, but there was a clear winner: the "Drill, baby, drill!" chants from the audience. Whether staged or spontaneous, those gleeful words showed a level of ignorance and recklessness that should be inconceivable today.

                                                        I'm sure that the conventioneers appreciated these presentations, but the bullying, domineering tone of these speakers was frightening.

                                                        We now know that the Republicans must be feeling very vulnerable.

                                                        In contrast, here is the advice of the number one Afrikaner Rush Limbaugh:


                                                        The worst thing that could happen tonight is a speech of how well he crosses the aisle and works with Democrats. Senator McCain has got to join all the rest of us under the concept that we want to beat Democrats. For tonight, keep hammering on offense what this team is, what this campaign's agenda is, deemphasizing the notion that somehow the American people are hell-bent on finding two parties that can work together.

                                                        So just broom the talk of working with Democrats.

                                                        Last night, McCain promised to end partisan rancor. The Republicans response to the speech was very muted. The delegates were very disappointed. They wanted McCain to speak like Rush Limbaugh. They wanted McCain to speak like an Afrikaner.

                                                        {"commentId":2775713,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"gedanken"}
                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #15.8 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:33 PM EDT
                                                        Reply
                                                        {"commentId":2766223,"authorDomain":"mindbodyspirit68"}

                                                        that was a completely pathetic speech and I do not get the analysis from you guys on msnbc. you guys really do live in a media bubble. that played pathetically to the Americans watching on TV I'll guarantee you that! It was not authentic, he spoke like an old man, his mr. goody remarks for Obama definitely did not sound sincere, and it had NO SUBSTANCE, NO SUBSTANCE, NO SUBSTANCE, NO SUBSTANCE!!!! chris matthews you are losing your mind, I'll bet the farm that McCain does not get a major bounce and he sure will not pass Obama - your tripping man! that bush speechwriter that was interviewed on the convention floor had it exactly right - and he is a republican! come on WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                        {"commentId":2766223,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"mindbodyspirit68"}
                                                        • 3 votes
                                                        Reply#16 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:53 PM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2766345,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

                                                        Uh.... right. Listen, this isn't MSNBC's analysis or even MSNBC.com's analysis; it's mine. I think McCain will get some bounce from this, probably more than you might think as there won't be a VP nomination to steal his thunder tomorrow and so this will play more.

                                                        But the speech was weak, you're right. I think his slips went largely undetected though. I missed some of them and I was trying to critique him on it.

                                                        {"commentId":2766345,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #16.1 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:59 PM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2767227,"authorDomain":"oksnoey"}

                                                        I agree! No substance! This ticket is all about image management and detracting from anyone who offers viable alternatives. They are masters. The RP is all about spinning images, symbols, and dogma so that the truth loses all meaning. It is an, 'assault on reason'. Phrases like 'plain talk', 'country first', 'smaller government', ultimately lose there original meaning.

                                                        {"commentId":2767227,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"oksnoey"}
                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #16.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:50 AM EDT
                                                        {"commentId":2767346,"authorDomain":"mindbodyspirit68"}

                                                        killfile
                                                        I respect your reply and I meant no disrespect to chris matthews I love to watch him cover politics, he is one of the best. sometimes though he gets caught up in the moment, which is understandable, but I do believe that he is giving the message of the speech too much credit. we the Americans are not so gullible and we will see through his transparency. Ok he might get a slight bounce, but i still don't see it being that big and still believe he will not surpass Obama. but?
                                                        well to you and I it might not play that big, but some will question his age even more. it was appalling to view a sea of white people and being a white male, I saw nothing but a deviscive party riding the coat-tails of Barack Obama - trying to jump on the change train, well the train left the station!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                        {"commentId":2767346,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"mindbodyspirit68"}
                                                          #16.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:59 AM EDT
                                                          {"commentId":2767522,"authorDomain":"judithod"}

                                                          Suggest you read Obama's speeches rather than just listening to them. The substance is sorely lacking.

                                                          {"commentId":2767522,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"judithod"}
                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          #16.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:11 AM EDT
                                                          {"commentId":2767793,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

                                                          Suggest you give us some examples instead of just stating unsupported arguments without substance (the irony notwithstanding…).

                                                          {"commentId":2767793,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #16.5 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:33 AM EDT
                                                          {"commentId":2769531,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

                                                          Suggest you read Obama's speeches rather than just listening to them. The substance is sorely lacking.

                                                          Obama has been favoring content that plays well rhetorically but backing that content with supplemental resources on his website. One example is how he mentioned in his acceptance speech that everything was accounted for "to the dime" and that you could find this information at mybarackobama.com

                                                          {"commentId":2769531,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"killfile"}
                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #16.6 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:05 AM EDT
                                                          {"commentId":2772836,"authorDomain":"freqgod11"}

                                                          I agree...WAKE up and don't vote Republican or Democrat.....run, don't walk to your nearest Libertarian candidate. All states should have as a part of their ballot choice for "none of these candidates" as the State of Nevada does.

                                                          Folks will tell you by marking that as your choice you are 'throwing away your vote". No you aren't. you are voting your conscience and stating that none of the candidates presented suits you.

                                                          {"commentId":2772836,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"freqgod11"}
                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #16.7 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 11:11 AM EDT
                                                          Reply
                                                          {"commentId":2766284,"authorDomain":"KNAZ"}

                                                          John McCain is not the most eloquent person, but the message was great. I'm certain that there are some in here that are disappointed that he did not go attack dog crazy like Biden, so they could have something to attack. So they say boring. I see all this talk about wanting candidates to be bipartisan, McCain talks bipartisan, has been bipartisan...and you dismiss the message. What a bunch of friggin hypocrites.

                                                          {"commentId":2766284,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"KNAZ"}
                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          Reply#17 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:56 PM EDT
                                                          {"commentId":2767519,"authorDomain":"jdkramer"}
                                                          JK from PADeleted
                                                          Reply
                                                          {"commentId":2766301,"authorDomain":"sweetsteffy81"}

                                                          then media trips me out. How did McCain do good? He was slow and sad.

                                                          Palin is not running for President. Are these people watching...I love Rachel Medow she just

                                                          tell it like it is. The speech sucked that's it. War and Nothing with facts and he a bad liar.

                                                          {"commentId":2766301,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sweetsteffy81"}
                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          Reply#18 - Thu Sep 4, 2008 11:57 PM EDT
                                                          {"commentId":2767603,"authorDomain":"jdkramer"}

                                                          The talking heads gave Bush a great score in his debates against Gore and Kerry because he did an above idiocy performance. We have elected (not me, per se) dummies to run this country for 8 long years and John McCain is another dumb@ss to do Bush's policy crap. Are we going to be so stupid this time, or are we going to grow a spine and go forward? THAT is the question.

                                                          {"commentId":2767603,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"jdkramer"}
                                                            #18.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:17 AM EDT
                                                            {"commentId":2767912,"authorDomain":"tabhi2004"}

                                                            I personally will vote for Obama cause he has people in mind and like he says you start from the bottom and go up.

                                                            {"commentId":2767912,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"tabhi2004"}
                                                              #18.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:43 AM EDT
                                                              {"commentId":2792892,"authorDomain":"vmithgurther"}

                                                              Beyond that, I'm sorry, yes I think Obama's work as a community organizer will actually prove helpful because, let's face facts, the first step of getting any group to solve any problem or achieve any goal is organizing them first. :)

                                                              Besides, I've said it before and I'll say it again: "I'm simple. If I have to roll the dice on someone, I'd rather the possibility of a positive outcome then an assured and proven bad one."

                                                              {"commentId":2792892,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"vmithgurther"}
                                                                #18.3 - Sat Sep 6, 2008 6:08 AM EDT
                                                                Reply
                                                                {"commentId":2766433,"authorDomain":"poetic-blue"}

                                                                I have to disagree.. I dont think McCain will get a bounce from this... if he does I would say a half a bounce if thats possible...

                                                                {"commentId":2766433,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"poetic-blue"}
                                                                  Reply#19 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:03 AM EDT
                                                                  {"commentId":2766471,"authorDomain":null}

                                                                  I rated it *weak* not *awful*, but I could have gone for awful.

                                                                  Do we have to be polite and not make fun of Grandpa for the next for years, if he wins?

                                                                  When my Grandpa told the same stories over and over and generally bored us to tears, we were polite and let him drone on. Is that part of the deal if he wins?

                                                                  {"commentId":2766471,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560"}
                                                                    Reply#20 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:05 AM EDT
                                                                    {"commentId":2767585,"authorDomain":"judithod"}

                                                                    So your elders are just bores? Grow up! You, too, will get older every year, and perhaps you will discover how events have shaped your life and enabled you to learn and to grow as a person. Too bad you didn't listen to your grandfather; he had a lot to share that would have enriched you!

                                                                    {"commentId":2767585,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"judithod"}
                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                    #20.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:16 AM EDT
                                                                    {"commentId":2767810,"authorDomain":"joe-23"}

                                                                    Judith, no one is questioning McCain's valor and courageousness as a P.O.W. all those years ago, and I am sure that it helped to create his character. Nevertheless that experience has nothing to do with whether or not he would make a good President! How will that experience help him to create an energy plan or balance the budget? Some of you folks are blinded by the Republican machine's strategy of waving the flag and creating fear that we will not be safe in the world without them. Try asking yourself if you are financially better off than you were 8 years ago, or if the US is better perceived in the world now than we were before Bush was elected. Or how about asking what has been done over the past 8 years to decrease our dependance on foreign oil? Oh wait a minute, I forgot, you are probably too busy waving the flag right now to think about those things.

                                                                    {"commentId":2767810,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"joe-23"}
                                                                      #20.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:34 AM EDT
                                                                      Reply
                                                                      {"commentId":2766474,"authorDomain":"duchess1946"}

                                                                      TO THE GUY WITH MCCAIN's RECORD - send me an email and lets talk.
                                                                      WHY WAS THAT COMMENT TAKEN OFF THIS SITE. If the comments he made are true it should have been left on this site unless there is some slight of hand here that only allows discussion that invites/encourages debate on this site but not truthtelling. I would like to know.

                                                                      {"commentId":2766474,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"duchess1946"}
                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      Reply#21 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:06 AM EDT
                                                                      {"commentId":2767798,"authorDomain":"walt857"}

                                                                      Google "veterans against john McCain" they have a fact sheet on his military career.

                                                                      {"commentId":2767798,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"walt857"}
                                                                        #21.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:33 AM EDT
                                                                        {"commentId":2771678,"authorDomain":"doubled9909"}

                                                                        Duchess, About your comment on adulterers. You must be questioning a heck of a lot of judgements then of a ton of Democrats (Bill, Ted,... the list goes on...) Maybe you should think before you write!! But then again people like you only see and hear what you want to!

                                                                        {"commentId":2771678,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"doubled9909"}
                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #21.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:25 AM EDT
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        {"commentId":2766491,"authorDomain":"cobradude28"}

                                                                        I think you can see the bias of the news outlets by the type of responses that you see. This is obviously a liberal news outlet. I'm a moderate, and John is an older man, but he's quite inspirational none the less. The disrespect most of you show towards a man who has made the sacrifices he's made is a poor example of the America we should be. I believe there's more of a chance he'll get something done with his experiences than Obama, who I believe is very left, and reaching across the isle means "come to the left and I'll work with you". I have much more belief in John, based on his bi-partisan track record, that we can actually get things done.

                                                                        The other thing is that I find quite interesting, is that nobody wants the war, everyone things it was the wrong thing to do given 20/20 hindsight, and yet the only people they hold accountable is the republicans? As I recall, nearly all of the democrats voted for it, and while Obama says he didn't, he wasn't in the senate and didn't have the reality of a real decision to face. You can blame the president, but you can't hold McCain any more accountable than anyone else. Same for the economy. The house is democratic controlled and they haven't done anything. Nothing. I found John's speach tonight to be refreshing. He didn't say that everyone has to come to his side.

                                                                        People need to grow up and forget about how cool and how great of a speaker Obama is...Popularity in my estimation may get you Putin. He's popular in his country too. Takes care of people with his big and powerful government....bet they have socialized healthcare too. That sounds great!

                                                                        Country first resonates with me as I'm tired of nothing getting done and all the bickering. We need experience to get this done.

                                                                        {"commentId":2766491,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"cobradude28"}
                                                                        • 5 votes
                                                                        Reply#22 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:06 AM EDT
                                                                        {"commentId":2766805,"authorDomain":"nkg54"}

                                                                        Well said! I think Chris Matthews should start wearing Obama buttons and decorate his set with Obama posters! Any resemblance between him and unbiased reporting is purely accidental. I'm done with MSNBC.

                                                                        {"commentId":2766805,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"nkg54"}
                                                                        • 3 votes
                                                                        #22.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:25 AM EDT
                                                                        {"commentId":2767755,"authorDomain":"jdkramer"}

                                                                        Wrapping yourself in the American flag. What a great excuse for a spineless position on TRUE American patriotism and the need to go forward. Your post sickens me and the soldiers that fight for your freedoms.

                                                                        Conservatives during the American Revolution sipped tea with the Brititsh occupiers while the liberal progessives fought for our independence. Now, you trounce on what we gave you. You "Conservatives" are traitors to this country's cause and post our beautiful flag as your poster! HOW DARE YOU.

                                                                        Liberty was fought for by Liberals and Progessives, not those stuck in the mud backstabbing cowards

                                                                        {"commentId":2767755,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"jdkramer"}
                                                                          #22.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:30 AM EDT
                                                                          {"commentId":2768085,"authorDomain":"nzo4re"}

                                                                          Brent - Excellent post! and given the mindless vitriol found in many (but not all) of the opposing posts leads me to believe that most liberals are blinded by their passion and rather than putting forth a cogent argument for their cause, they debase themselves with name calling and insults.

                                                                          It's really too bad because this election is too important to waste on name calling.

                                                                          {"commentId":2768085,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"nzo4re"}
                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #22.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:01 AM EDT
                                                                          {"commentId":2787025,"authorDomain":"rubenlruiz"}

                                                                          Brent, I listended to Mccains speech, here is what I personally viewed and learned...

                                                                          The man McCain is from a long lineage of warriors. His ancestry was resolute with war.
                                                                          Hence the man was born into war. He runs his campaign as war is his touchstone to the people!

                                                                          Born, raised and winding his life through in and about war, he tells his story...

                                                                          It does not seem to matter to him that the Vietnam War in which he served, was an imperialistic national blunder to "stop communism from taking over the world!"
                                                                          The pro war hype of that era would have the nation believe we were in grave danger- "fear" was once again the guiding light!

                                                                          I was there as a young boy. I witnessed this abomination of our nation going into war- "stop the communists, they are taking over the world!" That was the word of the day. "The domino effect will..."

                                                                          McCain, even to this day feels betrayed by the American peace movement as to why the Vietnam war was lost. This is familiar ground for the war culture that now has manifest itself in the Iraq War!
                                                                          A war that McCain said we needed and voted for!

                                                                          Yet another war that will go down historically as a political assignation of our constitution and our cultural beliefs!
                                                                          Another huge loss of national equity and our beloved youth all because of political ego and the lack of political wisdom!

                                                                          Wars are won or lost by the rightness of the participants! This is something viably important that McCain and conservatives don't grasp!

                                                                          As our nations history goes we have never lost a war when we were right but now we have lost wars because we were ideologically wrong! It's not just about military strength- its about wisdom and justice!

                                                                          McCains campaign, and his video bio are sequenced within his life of war.

                                                                          Service and gratitude of and for his country is based on his war experience.

                                                                          His biography finally sequences into his career as an AZ. senator.
                                                                          Twenty-six years of senatorial time are blurred into nothingness!

                                                                          His voting record parallels the GOP- a 10% difference from the GOP is supposed to define his presidency, and his given name the "Maverick?"
                                                                          His record cannot be hidden, his ideology is full of contradiction- flip flops!

                                                                          President Bush said, "Im the War president, Im the War president!"
                                                                          It most definitely seems there is another one named John McCain following in the wings!
                                                                          I truly hope he is not the one!

                                                                          McCain says he's different then Bush, he's not the same!
                                                                          Yet who was in the program directors chair off the convention stage as though he were directing the entire RNC proceeding?

                                                                          Karl Rove!
                                                                          McCain is the same as Bush- divisive, self-righteous, a fist-swinger with no answers for change from the destitude that his own party has created!

                                                                          {"commentId":2787025,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"rubenlruiz"}
                                                                            #22.4 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 7:10 PM EDT
                                                                            Reply
                                                                            {"commentId":2766494,"authorDomain":"flashmcgruder"}

                                                                            Trying to look at what McCain was trying to say, I do not think he can really pull it off. When he was a liberal Republican in the Senate, he was castigated by the Right Wing Republicans as being too Liberal. So can anybody actually think the Republican Washington Elite will allow him to be moderate and actually do things with the Democrats that are counter to what the right wing conservatives want to do? I do not think the Republican power bosses, including the ones in Congress, will ever let him do it.

                                                                            The most obvious example is McCain's caving in to their choice for Vice President. He wanted Lieberman. The Republican Washington Elite pretty much made it clear that this was unacceptable. So McCain picked an unknown ultra conservative from Alaska. Someone who was endorsed by the Eagle Forum for her ultraconservative views.

                                                                            {"commentId":2766494,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"flashmcgruder"}
                                                                              Reply#23 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:07 AM EDT
                                                                              {"commentId":2766693,"authorDomain":"v-shious"}

                                                                              Palin was hand picked by Dobson and the Council of National Policy.

                                                                              {"commentId":2766693,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"v-shious"}
                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                              #23.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:17 AM EDT
                                                                              Reply
                                                                              {"commentId":2766557,"authorDomain":"cjsmeby"}
                                                                              cjfromMNDeleted
                                                                              {"commentId":2766572,"authorDomain":"sweetsteffy81"}
                                                                              stephanie-43229Deleted
                                                                              {"commentId":2766588,"authorDomain":"redtailedhawk"}

                                                                              I thought McCain was less detailed as to what he will do than he has been on many interviews or town hall meetings. To me he spent most of his time talking to the republican base. Unlike other commenters here I liked the fact he directly told the Nam story. For years McCain was silent about it now he has said the most. The convention was about McCain so I expected to hear his war story by many delegates. People today have forgotten the old style conventions when a soldier was picked more often to run and of course you heard their war story a dozen times. It is just how America does it.

                                                                              I was wishing McCain would have talked more about how he intended to help the little guy. I will wait to see both Obama and McCain at the debates. I wish someone would have the courage Reagan showed when he allowed an independent to debate as well stating"I am paying for this microphone" In short Ralph Nader should be allowed to debate as well.

                                                                              At least the republicans did the Role Call of the States!

                                                                              I respect McCains service to his country. Being the daughter of a person in the Navy I did feel for McCain. My dad died. I honor McCains courage. I just wished that he would have talked to people like me who have fallen through a hole in the flag.

                                                                              {"commentId":2766588,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"redtailedhawk"}
                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                              Reply#26 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:12 AM EDT
                                                                              {"commentId":2776787,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                                                                              love your film work, anakin.

                                                                              {"commentId":2776787,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                                                                                #26.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:58 PM EDT
                                                                                Reply
                                                                                {"commentId":2766591,"authorDomain":"loveshepherds107"}

                                                                                There was no real difference in his speech that I have not heard before being said by Bush in fact some of the words were used in the Bush 2000 Elections. Mrs McCain looked like a deer in headlight or someone who was just alittle to high. She did not look real you can tell you was trying to read and her facial expression were very fake. I heard what he said about the economy and its no deference then Bush. All of the sudden they want to steal the Change Idea from Obam They can even be original how can anyone vote for that.

                                                                                Here is a little sample of Bush and McCain's record on the Economy

                                                                                Bush
                                                                                McCain they are the same.

                                                                                Bush: "The Fundamentals Are Strong." While speaking about recent economic troubles in Kansas City, President Bush said, "The fundamentals are strong. We're just in a rough patch." [Los Angeles Times, 2/2/08; emphasis added]

                                                                                McCain: "I Still Believe Our Fundamental Underpinnings Of Our Economy Are Strong..." In a report on CNN McCain said, "I still believe our fundamental underpinnings of our economy are strong, but it's obvious that we are facing challenges, which will require actions such as the Federal Reserve took today." [CNN, 1/22/08; emphasis added]

                                                                                Bush: "I Don't Think We're Headed To A Recession." According to CBS News, President Bush said, "I don't think we're headed to a recession, but no question we're in a slowdown." [CBS News, 2/28/08; emphasis added]

                                                                                McCain: "I Don't Believe We're Headed Into A Recession." While speaking at a Fox News Republican debate, McCain said, "I don't believe we're headed into a recession. I believe the fundamentals of this economy are strong, and I believe they will remain strong." [Fox News GOP Debate, South Carolina, 1/10/08; emphasis added]

                                                                                Bush: "We're Just In A Rough Patch." According to the Los Angeles Times, President Bush said, "The fundamentals are strong," Bush said. "We're just in a rough patch, as witnessed by the employment figures today. And I'm confident we can get through this rough patch." [Los Angeles Times, 2/2/08; emphasis added] :

                                                                                McCain "This is A Rough Patch."' While speaking at a Fox News Republican debate, McCain said, "I believe the fundamentals of this economy are strong, and I believe they will remain strong. This is a rough patch, but I think America's greatness lies ahead of us." [Fox News GOP Debate, South Carolina, 1/10/08; emphasis added]

                                                                                Bush: "We Need To Make the Tax Cuts Permanent." While speaking about the state of the economy, President Bush said, "one thing's for certain, is we need to make the tax cuts permanent." [President's Speech on the Economy at the EEOB, 2/19/04; emphasis added] McCain: "I'll Make the Bush Tax Cuts Permanent." While appearing on Meet the Press,

                                                                                McCain said, "I'll make the Bush tax cuts permanent... I've said 500 times that I want the tax cuts to be made permanent.." [NBC, "Meet the Press," 1/27/08; em

                                                                                {"commentId":2766591,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"loveshepherds107"}
                                                                                  Reply#27 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:12 AM EDT
                                                                                  {"commentId":2766762,"authorDomain":"v-shious"}

                                                                                  After he lost in 2000 he felt his mortality and surrendered to the Neocons to win the nomination. He's an old man trying to win immortality, the modern Faust.

                                                                                  {"commentId":2766762,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"v-shious"}
                                                                                    #27.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:22 AM EDT
                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                    {"commentId":2766596,"authorDomain":"lumpyone55"}

                                                                                    I don't see how he distanced himself from Bush. His education plan is terrible, fire teachers and if your school sucks go to another one? He doesn't have any help for college students on his website, he must have forgot about us. I appreciated the experience before it was waved in my face. If they would have never mentioned it I think his campaign would be doing better. This narrative crap is so hollow, I miss the old repub. way of thinking, and I'm not talking religion, I'm talking policy. It will be awhile to wash away all these neocons created by Bush before they can restore themselves to some semblence of what they were.

                                                                                    {"commentId":2766596,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"lumpyone55"}
                                                                                      Reply#28 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:12 AM EDT
                                                                                      {"commentId":2767286,"authorDomain":"cobradude28"}

                                                                                      Jayzus. Put yourself through school like everyone else. Why are you looking for a handout? Can't afford Harvard? Go to community college, get a job and go back when you can afford it. Hard work scare you? Get a loan and then file for bankruptcy like other proud liberals. Or get your higher education and put it to good use protesting. That's always a respectable thing to do, and the pay is great. Of course it's not about the money or working hard, it's what you stand for that matters most. There's plenty of hard working people perfectly willing to pay your way through college or your food stamps while you're protesting how bad and unfair things are.

                                                                                      I think John is not the old Bush republican, so if you haven't fallen over the liberal cliff, pick yourself up and step up to the plate and make a difference. John was talking to you tonight.

                                                                                      {"commentId":2767286,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"cobradude28"}
                                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                                      #28.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:54 AM EDT
                                                                                      {"commentId":2767677,"authorDomain":"judithod"}

                                                                                      McCain is right about the schools. The teachers' unions are preventing changes in curricula and teaching methods, and consequently, many children are falling through the cracks, particularly in the inner cities. Also, the unions ensure that teachers are paid on the basis of number of years taught, not on whether they're good teachers. McCain wants to open up the system to competition, using vouchers and encouraging charter schools. Since Obama is supported by the unions, he won't try to effect any real school change.

                                                                                      {"commentId":2767677,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"judithod"}
                                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                                      #28.2 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 1:23 AM EDT
                                                                                      {"commentId":2774387,"authorDomain":"adblake"}

                                                                                      I've never commented on here before but, as a teacher, I could not leave this one alone. The teacher's unions are not preventing change as much as the No Child Left Behind Act. The government is now controlling the curricula and teachers are not allowed to use proven methods of teaching as they once were. But, I will say, that we are creating a base of students who will be great test takers and teachers who can teach a test. How do you determine a good teacher? We are already subjected to multiple tests to receive a teaching license, just as doctors take the Boards, lawyers take the Bar, etc. What tests do our politicians take to prove they are 'good'?

                                                                                      {"commentId":2774387,"threadId":"349596","contentId":"1828560","authorDomain":"adblake"}
                                                                                        #28.3 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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