"Barack Hussein Obama" They're Saying It At Sarah Palin's Rallies Now

Elections are supposed to be about educating the voters on the important policy choices so they voter can in turn instruct the government on election day.    

   So what do you think about all those 'educated voters' the Obama campaign is rounding up at the homeless shelters and soup kitchens to go register and vote in Ohio?                     

I wonder how many "dead people" are voting in Chicago this year?

Seriously our founding fathers would be throwing up over the way Obama is running his campaign! I wonder if you get Salad with that vote?

Attempt to justify it any way you choose. 

In doing so, you become the scum you defend.

I wonder how many "dead people" are voting in Chicago this year?

Judging by the state polls I'd say that the McCain campaign has more to worry about from the live white voters in places like Indiana, Iowa and Colorado who are ready to put aside the charade of government by soundbite and slur in favor of real change.

Looks like there will be no McGovern Repeat in 08. Unless McCain is our new McGovern.

pay attention to the truth here. This was not the mccain campaign's doing.

Judging by the state polls I'd say that the McCain campaign has more to worry about from the live white voters in places like Indiana, Iowa and Colorado

I live in IA.  We have consistently been a blue state.  You're grasping at straws.  Citing IA in your post is almost as ridiculous as citing CA.

Also, according to realclearpolitics.com, McCain is currently up by 2.2 in IN (still considered 'toss up') here's the link:  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/#data

The only part of your post that has any relevancy whatsoever is CO.

   So what do you think about all those 'educated voters' the Obama campaign is rounding up at the homeless shelters and soup kitchens to go register and vote in Ohio?

Welcome to the wonderful world of representative democracy--where you can be homeless and still participate in the electoral process. 

What you're basically saying is that homeless citizens of this country don't have the right to vote becuase they're homeless.  Don't you find that a little classist, a little un-American?  

This was not the mccain campaign's doing.

Does this mean that he's no longer in control of his own campaign?

All Americans should be able to vote and those who somehow think that certain classes of people don't deserve to vote says a lot about the direction this country is heading. I would suggest that the homeless need to vote more than anyone as they need help more than most, plus lets not forget that many of the homeless are the veterans of this country. So your suggestion is that the people that have fought for this country and our right to vote that they should not get to.

I just want to ad that the person that introduced Palin at this rally was the sheriff in uniform. So for someone in that position to use his middle name in a way to divide people and to show racism is pitiful. If I where an Obama supporter in that county I would be livid, I hope no ethnic people live there that is for sure.

So, how much do you need to earn in order to earn the right to vote?  I would think that of everyone in this country who should vote, those who are in need of a government that represents them should be given the opportunity to vote.  So the question is not why the Obama campaign is driving these people to vote, but why isnt the McCain campaign willing to disenfranchise these voters?

The person who said this was introducing him. the article says it was a florida official.

Mad chef....are you saying that McCain has to be responsible for the actions and words of an unknown florida official.....but Obama shouldn't be held accountable for the actions and words of......

I'm an independent so I will not join in on the inflammatory remarks by posters on BOTH sides of these issues so I won't name names to finish my comment.

I'm just sayin.....

All Americans should be able to vote and those who somehow think that certain classes of people don't deserve to vote says a lot about the direction this country is heading

I agree that all Americans should be allowed to vote. However, voting is a privilege that should not be taken lightly. A homeless person may have very little access to information that would afford him or her the opportunity to make a WISE decision about who needs to be the leader of the free world. Making an uninformed decision, in my opinion, is worse than making no opinion at all. It would be the same as if an 18 year old voted for John McCain because his parents told him to. (Which does happen a lot). It would be the same as if a 25 year old voted for Barack Obama because Kanye West told him to. (Which does happen a lot).

But on a side note, this is the reason the founding fathers set up a republic and not a true democracy. They knew not everyone would be able to make a rational, logical choice for a leader. There would be way too many emotions and issues involved to make a sound decision.

Don't post in all bold.  Your comments aren't any more important than anyone else's. 

Killfile,

Wasn't attempting to imply that they were and apologize if it came accross that way. 

 Since I was double quoting form two different posts, I was attempting to keep the 3 seperate.  (original quote, response, my response)..Often times, I see the three jumbled together and its hard to tell who said what.

Can you suggest a better way to do this that will keep the three seperate, eliminating confusion?  I certainly don't want to offend anyone's sensibilities by using bold font.

Best way I've found is not to put anything in quotes until the end. Easier to start and stop that way.

Can you suggest a better way to do this that will keep the three seperate, eliminating confusion?  I certainly don't want to offend anyone's sensibilities by using bold font.

You can

Nest quotes

Like this.

You can

Nest quotes

Like this.

Oh wow!  How cool is that!?  If you don't mind, hit the "contact author" under my profile and tell me how it's done.  (I'm a fairly recent newbie to Newsvine)...I'm guessing everyone here doesn't want to read how it's done...But I'd sure like to know.

Yes. Politics is a tough game. 

This is no game Shaun. Such a statement is puerile. Your MO is classicly Cheney/Palin-esque. Hope you are proud of that..... 

And if you "play" at life this way---good luck finding anyone or anything meaningful.

I smell desparation in the air.......and as a gifted writer recently said about Sarah Palin:

"The world's gravity escapes her..."

(http://nholladay.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/06/1960591-kiplin-vs-palin-)

Such "play" can end up being very serious, Shaun.

The world's gravity obviously has escapes you as well.

However, voting is a privilege that should not be taken lightly.

Wrong.  Voting is a right extended to those who meet the qualifications.  Homeless individuals who meet the citizenship and age requirements and who have not had their right to vote revoked have the right to vote.  You may not like it but that's the way it is.

A homeless person may have very little access to information that would afford him or her the opportunity to make a WISE decision about who needs to be the leader of the free world.

Or a homeless individual may have access to a wealth of publicly available information.  You don't know.  But it doesn't matter because you don't get to decide who is worthy enough to cast a ballot for President of this country.  Given your opinion on this matter I question your ability to make a wise decision about who needs to be the leader of the free world--perhaps you should sit this one out.

But on a side note, this is the reason the founding fathers set up a republic and not a true democracy. They knew not everyone would be able to make a rational, logical choice for a leader.

The framers limited the right to vote to white, property holding, Protestant men.  Are you seriously suggesting that we should limit suffrage to those individuals? 

Perhaps we should revoke the right to vote from women.  They might be too emotional to make a rational, logical choice.

Or perhaps we should just come clean and admit that this whole line of discussion is bull@!$%#.  Poll tests and property requirements and a host of other racist, classist, sexist, anti-democratic and un-American obstacles to the right to vote have been eliminated throughout the history of this country. 

You don't get to decide who is "qualified" to make a "rational choice."  Perhaps instead of thinking so much about the qualifications of others you should consider your own.

Courts, I'm well aware that voting is a right. It is a privilege in that we should take it seriously enough to look at all the issues before we go vote automatically based on party, race, gender, bias, etc.

That was all I meant. Sorry you took such offense to it.

And BTW, considering I've spent hours on line researching each candidate's voting record, background, and political aspirations, I would say I am more than qualified to make a vote on who should be the next president. The problem is, I don't believe half of what either is saying is true or can be accomplished. And there's not one politician, rapper, preacher, actress or activist that will convince me otherwise.

It is WHY they are using the candidates name--to titillate anti-Muslim prejudice. Do you doubt that's what they are doing?  If not, how do you distinguish between that and them saying he's got "big puffy lips" and "is lazy."

Elections should be decided on rational bases, not on manipulation of hateful prejudice.

how do you distinguish between that and them saying he's got "big puffy lips" and "is lazy."

Because that would be untrue. The truth is..that is his name.

Nice dodge.

Let's go back and forth until you answer the real question being asked: how do you distinguish between Palin and McCain's motives for emphasizing Obama's middle name and what their motive would be if they said "all he cares about is loose shoes and a warm place to.......?"

Is exploiting racial hate verboten but religious hate OK?

Do you deny they are manipulating hatefulness in the electorate for political gain?

Next dodge please............or are you man (or woman) enough to answer directly and honestly?

If not, how do you distinguish between that and them saying he's got "big puffy lips" and "is lazy."

Give me a break.  It's the man's middle name.  It is what it is.  How is using his middle name more 'racist' than when his own running mate said (when speaking about Obama on the campaign trail): 

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Correct....will the Chief Justice not say his middle name when and if Obama is sworn in?

What nonsense.

Yes, it's his name. When those same announcers ever say "please welcome John Sydney McCain the third and Sarah Louise Heath Palin", I'll stop believing that this is bigotry in its simplest form.

Ben,

Your comment is hyper sensitive.  I have heard "John Sidney McCain" several times on the campaign trail.

If you don't like Obama's middle name...lobby to have him change it.  HE obviously, is proud of it or he would have changed it or dropped it by now.  Especially if he thought it was a liability to his political career.

Some in this country are so PC it's ridiculous.  I find Biden's comment about Obama exceptionally more racist than using the man's middle name.  What are your thoughts?  Or will you remain mum on that because Biden has a (D) aftr his name?

Independent Voter...

The only reason the liberals are freaking out about using Obama's middle name is because THEY are sensitive to it.  Perhaps it's just another fact about Obama they want to hide?

Seems they want to sweep a lot of facts about Obama under the rug.  The nation knows very little about this man, yet they intend to vote for him.  It's scary.

Would the McCain campaign even mention Obama's middle name if it was "John" or "Steve" or "Sidney"?  No.  They *are* trying to use Hussein against him.

I fully agree with IV tho - they have every right to do so and it's ridiculous to care.

The only successes the McCain and Palin campaign's new strategy (attacking the character of Obama) can claim is strengthening the emotions of those that would never vote for Obama, and pushing more independents to Obama.  Heck - in my circles, they're pushing their own base to Obama.

His whole name is unusual, and I'm not sensitive to it at all.   I'm sensitive to the fact that I've actually heard people say "I'm not gonna vote for that Hussein ay-rab son of a @!$%#."

Heck - in my circles, they're pushing their own base to Obama.

Ain't that the truth. In the past week I've seen four people defect from McCain to Obama simply due to the way that the McCain camp has been conducting itself (yes, at the start of last week they were firmly going to vote for McCain). Of course, Palin's debate performance didn't help things either.

Ben - alright, I have to admit I had to chuckle at your quote.  And I've heard it too.  But in the last election I heard the same people said they weren't voting for a coward that lied to get some medals, then burned them.  And before that I think Gore was gay or something. 

These are the same people that were revolted by Bill Clinton smoking pot, but accepted a recovering alcoholic and cocaine user when it was "their candidate", and recently condemned any woman running for the highest office (simply because "that's not a woman's job") but fully support Palin in her bid.

I tend to lump "those" people into the "will never vote Democrat" and will always justify their reason.

Pat N:

The nation knows very little about this man, yet they intend to vote for him.

Actually, those claiming that they know little about Obama are lazy and want to be spoon-fed. He's written two books about his autobiography and philosophy. Anyone can go on-line and examine his policies at his website. You can go on-line and examine his voting record in the Senate; I would suspect you could do the same regarding his time in the Illinois legislature.
The corporate media have been scandal-digging for the last years. The Republicans have been putting out opposition research. Tax returns and medical records have been made available. If you want to find out his dang blood-type you probably can! But you have to be willing to do some research!

It's a little trickier to get some items like that on John Sidney mcCain, particularly his medical records, and his tax returns are partially obscured by those of his wife, but same thing; he has an autobiography, there are voting records, and his statements on the Senate floor are in official Congressional records.

It is the responsibility of the voter to be informed!

One question, IndependentVoter:

How often have you referred to John McCain as "John Sidney McCain IV"?

How often have you referred to Sarah Palin as "Sarah Louise Heath Palin"?

Now, how often do you hear Palin or McCain referred to by those full names? 

I rest my case.

That's it, I've made the conscious decision to use their full names from now on whenever I mention them - simply for the sheer hilarity of the matter.  I can't wait for the odd looks I get.

And yet again...

Omar Bradley

Abraham Lincoln

George Joulwan

Benjamin Franklin

James Madison

Thomas Jefferson

John Adams

James Monroe

James Polk

Zachary Taylor

All have names with semitic roots, just like Obama. 

Before World War II a common last name for German-Americans was Hitler, and Adolf was a common first name.  Once the world infamous Hitler came into power, a large percentage of German-Americans rushed out to change their names.  That's what continuing to throw out Obama's middle name sounds like to me.  There's this prejudice that because his middle name is Hussein he's some how related to or similar to Saddam. 

The Republicans have been putting out opposition research. Tax returns and medical records have been made available. If you want to find out his dang blood-type you probably can! But you have to be willing to do some research!

I would agree that there are sheep on both sides of the fence that simply parrot what is fed to them by the media and take it as gospel.

But there are some records Obama won't release that are as important to the right as John McCain's medical records are to the left.

Obama refuses to release his records from Columbia or Harvard and won't let either school release any of those records.  he will not release his thesis which was about his opinion regarding disarmament of the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War.  Why won't he tell us these simple, usually innocuous details?

Why did his Senior Campaign Advisor at one time say Obama and Ayers were "friendly" but now Obama claims he "didn't know" about Ayers political radicalism and domestic terrorism?  This is a repeat of the mantra that he "never heard" Reverand Wright make racist or anti-semitic remarks, even though he attended his church twice a week for 20 years.

These are things that American's want answers to that simply can't be found through research.

The left is waiting with breathless anticipation for McCain to address some issues.  I find it odd that they get offended when the right is waiting with the same breathless anticipation for Obama to address issues as well.

arcanebliss

You have no case. It is his name. Period.
Will the Chief Justice not mention Obamas middle name when and if he is sworn in?

Some in this country are so PC it's ridiculous.  I find Biden's comment about Obama exceptionally more racist than using the man's middle name.  What are your thoughts?  Or will you remain mum on that because Biden has a (D) aftr his name?

Pat, sorry -- didn't address this.  Biden's a funny guy -- remember his reference to Indian-Americans running convenience stores?   Believing a cultural stereotype does not make one racist.  With respect to his comments about Obama, I took from him that Obama breaks through the stereotypes. 

alright, I have to admit I had to chuckle at your quote.  And I've heard it too.

: )

I tend to lump "those" people into the "will never vote Democrat" and will always justify their reason.

But you have to admit then that the primary motivation in using his name is not to be more clear about the person they're talking about.  It's to get the low information voters who might otherwise have voted for the candidate with the D next to his name.  Not to mention that it gets applause from the high information voters who take pleasure knowing that every time it's mentioned there are probably a handful of people who will change their vote for no other reason. 

IV, why is his middle name such a big deal to you?  Why do you continue to use his middle name but not John or Sarah's?  What's wrong with having a semitic name?  Didn't you see my post above?

IV, why is his middle name such a big deal to you?

It is not

Why do you continue to use his middle name but not John or Sarah's?

I have never used Obamas middle name..anywhere..I have never used John or Sarahs middle names anywhere.

What's wrong with having a semitic name?

Nothing

Didn't you see my post above?

Yes

IndependentVoter

arcanebliss

You have no case. It is his name. Period.
Will the Chief Justice not mention Obamas middle name when and if he is sworn in?

AGAIN - I ASK:

How often have you referred to John McCain as "John Sidney McCain IV"?

How often have you referred to Sarah Palin as "Sarah Louise Heath Palin"?

Now, how often do you hear Palin or McCain referred to by those full names? 

Pat N,

If you wish to play that game then - I must ask:

Why did John Sidney McCain IV associate himself with Carl Linder Jr. and G. Gordon Liddy?

Why did John Sidney McCain IV sit on the council of U.S. Council for World Freedom as a board member which was affiliated to the World Anti-Communist League? 

Why was John Sidney McCain IV and his father 'pallin around' with John Singlaub, a major player in the Iran-Contra scandal?

Why was John Sidney McCain IV hanging out on a boat for his birthday with Raffaello Follieri, a convicted felon? 

Why was John Sidney McCain IV rubbing shoulders with Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska?

Why did John Sidney McCain IV accept hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations and gifts from Charles H. Keating, Jr.?

Alot of arguments and assertions, but no direct answer:

Do you deny that McCain Palin are manipulating hatefulness in the electorate for political gain when they use Obama's middle name?

The question is one of motive--WHY ARE THEY DOING IT?  We can dance around that question all day, but we all know the answer.

It is a political ploy to encourage voters to act on their prejudices.

It is most certainly NOT a respectful appeal to reason and the other better angles in our national make-up.

If hate can push them over the top, John and Sara will take the shove.

I just called the most conservative person I know and said "does it bother you that Obama's middle name is 'Hussein'?"

His reply "HELL YES it does.  We need to let the world know about this Muslim terrorist that wants to take over our country from the top. (30 seconds more of ranting here)"

So I followed up with "And do you think it incites emotion when the McCain / Palin campaign mentions his middle name?"

Reply: "Every time I hear that eff'ers middle name I want to do something about it.  I hope others do too."

So - not that I conducted the most scientific of all experiments.  But I do think IV could be wrong here.  It does matter to some.

Sacheson,

Your story is not an isolated one, when the race first began - my parents' first voiced concern was over Barack Hussein Obama II's middle name.  I have to admit that I felt a little embarassed that even my own parents were a party to the same irrational fear of a name that plagues many Americans.

IV - he may use his full name, but it's not required.  While some Presidents have said "I, <insert name here>, do solemnly..." the oath of office is specified in the Constitution as:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

arcanebliss - since you're going to use his full name, be sure to know that he's John Sydney III ;)

Bah, google has forsaken me!  [shakes fist]

Pat, sorry -- didn't address this.  Biden's a funny guy -- remember his reference to Indian-Americans running convenience stores?   Believing a cultural stereotype does not make one racist.

Ben, If believing a cultural stereotype does not make a person a racist, then what DOES make a person a racist?

Yesterday, when Palin attacked Obama using the whole "Hussein" and "paling around with terrorists" tactics to insinuate he is a Muslim terrorist, there where two incidents where someone in the crowd yelled "he's a terrorist" and "kill him." She succeeded doing what they intended to do, incite hatred.

Ben, If believing a cultural stereotype does not make a person a racist, then what DOES make a person a racist?

Believing that race is the primary (or even contributing) factor determining a person's abilities.   Most of what people perceive as racism is just cultural bias.

This has made me cry!  I can't believe how ignorant some people are!

kingmarty

Before World War II a common last name for German-Americans was Hitler, ...

Your effort at comic relief was successful.

In 1932 there were 800 A. Hitlers listed in the New York City phone book.  Guess how many there were in 1952.

philipe

kingmarty

Your effort at comic relief was successful.

Yes, I suppose the truth can be amusing.

Self denial is an ugly thing to see.  It is all about manipulating hate.  Kevin Phillips, Republican strategist in the 1960s predicted that the "solid south" would shift from the Democratic column to the Republican column as a result of the Democrats passing civil rights laws. Phillips said, "Politics is all about who you hate." Phillips was right: the solid south switch allegiance from Democratic to Republican.

Karl Rove isn't the first manipulator of differences to cobble together an electoral success. Reagan's political Svengali Lee Attwater had RonaldReagan kick off his 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, Miss. 16 Years After the murder of Civil Rights James Earl Chaney, 21, Andrew Goodman, 20, and Michael Schwerner, 24.

During that appearance Mr. Reagan told his audience, "I believe in states' rights."

He told the moral majority--founded by long-time segregationist Jerry Falwell that he “endorsed them”

For those of you who don't know, on  June 21, 1964, during the `Freedom Summer,'' where hundreds of volunteers were scouring the state registering blacks to vote, three young Northern college student activists participating in the voter registration drives were slain by local police and buried in a berm. It took 44 days and the federal government looking to find their bodies. The murders focused the national spotlight on Mississippi and swelled support for the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

Yet, Reagan chose to come to that town, to give a speech where he didn't say a word about civil rights--as opposed to "state's rights,."

All of this isn't just casual background.  Hate, when it is pandered to, results in evil things.

You people dismissing the Obama middle name thing as something unimportant are collaborators in the continued institutionalization of hate in our political process.

Only when WE are disgusted by such tactics will politician quit exploiting our hate filled impulses.

It doesn't matter who the hate is directed at, Muslims or African Americans, what matters is it is being exploited and kept socially viable by the likes of John McCain and Sara Palin.

Believing that race is the primary (or even contributing) factor determining a person's abilities.   Most of what people perceive as racism is just cultural bias.

Ben,  So if someone here said "Michelle Obama is the first black woman in the public eye that doesn't have a big butt"....you would defend that person if liberals on this board accused them of being a racist?

Why don't people bring up John McCain's middle name so often?  Because it's not the same as a dictator we just deposed.  Couple that with bandying about the "terrorist" word with Obama, and it's obvious this is merely something being used to incite racists.  I've read many racist signs here in Missouri that gladly tell everyone Barack Obama's middle name.  Sure, it's his name, but it's not coincidental that his middle name is often being used along with racist rhetoric, and pretending otherwise is pretty ridiculous.

These concerns are not valid and are only helping to stir up sentiment that may later contribute to some deluded scumbag assassination attempt.  This is pretty irresponsible behavior on the Republican party's part.

So if someone here said "Michelle Obama is the first black woman in the public eye that doesn't have a big butt"....you would defend that person if liberals on this board accused them of being a racist?

Well no, because that's insulting, hard to say if it's racist.   It's not like Biden said he's "well-spoken, for a black man".   He was contrasting Obama with previous black candidates like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who were interesting but not captivating in the way that Obama is.  Obama's oratory is well beyond theirs.  I'd put him on par with Reagan.

Well no, because that's insulting, hard to say if it's racist.   It's not like Biden said he's "well-spoken, for a black man".   He was contrasting Obama with previous black candidates like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who were interesting but not captivating in the way that Obama is.  Obama's oratory is well beyond theirs.  I'd put him on par with Reagan.

Ben...(hope you don't mind me continuing this line of thought, but I find it interesting.  It's nice to talk about something like this with someone who isn't rabid)

Now....I disagree that it's insulting.  Saying Michelle is the first black woman in the public eye that DOESN'T have a big butt is exactly like what you're saying.

  You say Biden was contrasting Obama with Sharpton or Jackson.  The argument could be made that the "butt" comment would be contrasting Michelle with JLo or Queen Latifah.

kingmarty

In 1932 there were 800 A. Hitlers listed in the New York City phone book.

Uh...Wrong again.

Interesting random fact: before WWII there were 22 people named Hitler in the NYC phone book; by 1945 there were none.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080827144538AApY0eO

arcanebliss

Now it's a huband and wife comedy team.

philipe

arcanebliss
Now it's a huband and wife comedy team.

I suggest that you steer clear of personal attacks.

Also, it truly is a comedic action to cite 'yahoo answers'.

When you say public, I'm assuming you mean mainstream American public, not a cultural niche.   J-Lo's not black -- but I'm with you in that the cultural stereotype fits, at least loosely.  Queen Latifah is plus-sized (and says she's happy), so I'm not sure if she's a good example.  Anyway, I'll go along with it for the sake of argument.  

The size of someone's butt (at least relative to the rest of their body) is determined primarily by their genetic makeup.  Bone, musculature and the quantity of fat cells all contribute to it.   It's very much dependant on who your ancestors are.   It's not being racist to talk about race, but regardless it's degrading to talk about celebrities and their body issues.

And while certain things contribute - size and shape of the nasal cavity and larynx, lung capacity, etc... all contribute to some degree.   I believe that the ability of someone to express their ideas and capture an audience is learned and has nothing to do with race.  So when Biden is talking about how Obama is ground breaking where the previous black candidates weren't, I don't think that's being racist.  Jackson and Sharpton simply have flaws that the electorate can't look beyond.

arcanebliss

No personal attack, just an amusing observation.

Speaking of comedy, I'd like to see a cite to support the statement about 800 Hitlers in the NYC phone book.

I read about it in history class, and I've seen it in a couple of trivia books.  Google isn't really offering up anything relevant.

kingmarty

I read about it in history class, and I've seen it in a couple of trivia books.  Google isn't really offering up anything relevant.

You can't find it because it's not true.

Just because it doesn't show up on google doesn't mean it's not true, and just because it shows up on google doesn't mean something is true.

But I promise you and I'll swear on a stack of bibles that I read that juicy little tidbit while trying to learn more about anti-german sentiments in America.

So when Biden is talking about how Obama is ground breaking where the previous black candidates weren't, I don't think that's being racist.  Jackson and Sharpton simply have flaws that the electorate can't look beyond.

Ben,

Here is Biden's exact quote:  "I mean, you got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Wouldn't the 'clean' and 'nice looking guy' part make Biden's comment racist, according to your definition?  I'll give you the 'articulate' part....but the 'clean' and 'nice looking' is right on par with the 'butt' comment.  It implies that all other AA's are dirty and ugly.

kingmarty

I'm one up on you king.

I grew up in a German neighborhood in NYC and I can guarantee you that there was never 800 with the surname of Hitler at any time in any NY phone book, and that includes Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and the Bronx.

You might be a candidate for Ginkgo Biloba therapy.

You grew up in the thirties?

How about we try this without being insulting.  Can you provide me with a phone book from the late 20s early 30s to verify your claim?

Here is Biden's exact quote: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Wouldn't the 'clean' and 'nice looking guy' part make Biden's comment racist, according to your definition?

There's a lot to parse in Biden's statement, but I don't read any racism in it.   There's no inference that other African-Americans are not capable because of their race.

The independent clause really says it all, "He's the first mainstream African-American candidate." Sure, Jackson, Sharpton, and even Keyes ran and got on a national stage, but they were not mainstream in any real sense and never had a chance to win due to their past statements and positions.

Then the adjective clauses, "who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy" which could just as easily have been "who wears blue ties and eats tacos".   They don't detract from other African-Americans, just describe Obama. 

Exact Search Results - Historical Records
You searched for Hitler from 1920 - 1940

You're welcome, Marty.

kingmarty

You grew up in the thirties?

No. But many of my relatives did and I heard stories of those named Goebbels, Himmler, etc., but never once did they mention anyone with the surname of Hitler. I trust their memories over yours.

Can you provide me with a phone book from the late 20s early 30s to verify your claim?

No. I'm still waiting for your 1932 phone book with the 800 Hitlers.

I did better than that.

arcanebliss

And in my best New York-ese, "You still don't got no 800 hunnert Hitlers."

Try again.

wow arcane - that is some result!

Indeed, rat.

LOL, Dunno why I feel like a rodent suddenly. There's 2 a's in between. Sounds like heart:-)

Philipe,

That's because the surname 'Hitler' specifically was changed upon arriving in the states, much as most other immigrants did.  Only records of the number of immigrants arriving prior to name change could accurately give that number.  I'm not entirely possitive where or how someone could locate records like that.  I'm guessing in the New York Library of Congress.

arcanebliss

But where are the 800 Hitlers in the NYC phone book?
And why, prior to 1932 would a German immigrant change their name? The surname Hitler didn't take on an evil context until WW II.
It was mostly Eastern European names that were changed by immigration clerks. Germans were in the US for years. As a matter of fact, German, for a long time, was the second most spoken language in the US after English. Today, if I am not mistaken, it still is the fourth most spoken language.

New York Library of Congress

Never knew we had our own Library of Congress.

Pat N:

I'm not picking on you, I swear!  But:

he will not release his thesis which was about his opinion regarding disarmament of the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War.  Why won't he tell us these simple, usually innocuous details?

First off, I highly doubt that his thesis was about his "opinion" regarding the disarmament of the USSR.  Opinions are for English 101; a thesis is for an honor's student who analyzes and shows critical skills.  A thesis at Columbia University would be way beyond the "reaction paper" of a first year literature class.

Secondly, it's probably smart for him not to release his thesis.  I've written two of them, and I'm working on my dissertation.  I'd hate someone to judge me for the ideas I wrote when I was a 21 year old senior in college.  Someone reading my senior thesis could easily spin me into a Nietzschean!  That wasn't my position in the paper, but a political campaign could make you think so.  You and I both know that McCain would love to find a way to make Obama look like a Soviet sympathizer--he is, after all, sooooo dangerously liberal. 

Trust me, I've seen it under Bush and Ashcroft: if you give a reckless Republican your academic research, they try to put you on a watch list, which makes our country's academic institutions decline, which makes us become more of an international joke, which makes it harder for us to compete....  Obama's senior thesis has no bearing on his ability to be president; John McCain's full medical report does have bearing on the GOP candidate's ability to be president.

Philipe,

State and local governments have research centers where you can access periodicals housed in the Library of Congress.

it's probably smart for him not to release his thesis.  I've written two of them, and I'm working on my dissertation.  I'd hate someone to judge me for the ideas I wrote when I was a 21 year old senior in college.

Remember what happened when the GOP got a hold of Michele's thesis?  (She was painted as this raving radical!)

Exactly.  It's a way to distort someone's character and falsify their past.

arcanebliss

NY'ers don't need the Library of Congress when  the NYPL has of the best genealogical departments in nation.

It's on on Fifth and 42nd. Next time you are in NYC you might want to take advantage of it's resources. Or search for kingmarty's mysterious 1932 phone book and it's contents of 800 Hitlers. 

http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/lhg/genea.cfm

Great, I'm very happy for the state for New York.

What is McCain's middle name? If the Republicans are simply using Obama's middle name because "most presidents use their middle name" why are they not introducing McCain with his middle name or using it any time they are referring to him? Why aren't they using Sarah Palin's middle name then? How come they are not referring to Joe Biden using his middle name? Very interesting how they are only using it for one of the four people involved. Either use it for everyone or not at all.

There's a lot to parse in Biden's statement, but I don't read any racism in it.   There's no inference that other African-Americans are not capable because of their race.

The independent clause really says it all, "He's the first mainstream African-American candidate." Sure, Jackson, Sharpton, and even Keyes ran and got on a national stage, but they were not mainstream in any real sense and never had a chance to win due to their past statements and positions.

Then the adjective clauses, "who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy" which could just as easily have been "who wears blue ties and eats tacos".   They don't detract from other African-Americans, just describe Obama. 

Excuse me, but I personally took offense to the "clean" part of the remark.  He's inferring that not all of "us" are clean or articulate or bright.  And what does his being nice looking have to do with anything?

Excuse me, but I personally took offense to the "clean" part of the remark.  He's inferring that not all of "us" are clean or articulate or bright. 

I disagree.  The only comparison to other African Americans came in the first part of the sentence: "He's the first mainstream African-American candidate,".  Grammatically, that is an independent clause and it stands on its own. The inference is that all other African-American candidates were not mainstream, therefore he is the first.  

The rest of the sentence is an adjective clause so it is descriptive, not comparative.   Obama is extremely bright and articulate.    It's really hard to say what he meant by clean -- to a politician clean is a loaded word - so I'd give Joe the benefit of the doubt and assume he means no political baggage (or corruption).

And what does his being nice looking have to do with anything?

Nothing at all.  I'm really not sure why he said it.  The ladies on The View have made a point of saying it though too.

arcanebliss

It's not New York State's library you should be happy for, but New York City's.

shoooo: shooooooot that was dumb.

He was contrasting Obama with previous black candidates like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who were interesting but not captivating in the way that Obama is.  Obama's oratory is well beyond theirs.  I'd put him on par with Reagan.

[still can't get the damn quote thing to work]

I too would put him on a par with Reagan and both of the forenamed preachers on a much higher "par" in the oratory department.

Obama may be a good stump speaker, but he's no orator--those other guys are prators: and Fredrick Douglass.....oh my goodness but to be able to hear rather than just read.

".....for a black man" indeed! That would be setting a higher standard than is generally applied.

John,

I sense a fun little debate coming on.  First, I want to find out if you're saying that Obama is as pure as the driven snow when it comes to negative campaigning or that his attack ads have no bearing on the Independent voter.

Pat, okay this is going to sound childish, but honestly McCain has brought it to this point. Obama has been talking about the ISSUES (remember those?), but McCain has now decided to get aggressive with attacking Obama's character, which he did state before the attack ads got so bad now. Obama of course has to defend himself and if McCain is going to make a lame attempt to tie him to some old hippie, then it's only right that Obama gets the chance to tie McCain to some corruption. I'm more worried about McCain's corruption ties since that effects me much more than Obama living on the same block as some old hippie who hasn't done anything in forty years. In fact, due to McCain's actions a lot of hard working people lost their 401K's. Obama was not alongside Ayers when he was doing whatever it was he was doing. All of this rings like McCarthyism of the 1950's where a lot of innocent people were ruined over this stupid junior high stuff.

You mean this G. Gordon Liddy?

Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in “if necessary”; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a “gangland figure” to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap “leftist guerillas” at the 1972 Republican National Convention — a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.

correct! to which McCain said: "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family,"

Interesting, no right-wing responses to this one.

I can hear the crickets...........

"We like Mr. Obama, and we hope that he will win the elections," Ahmed Yousuf, Hamas' top political adviser in the Gaza Strip, said in an exclusive interview with WND and with the John Batchelor Show on WABC Radio in New York.

Wow, O has supporters in the mid-east! I wonder when they go through his donation files how much more they will have to send back.
Sounds like both campaigns have whack jobs supporting them!
10 out of 10 terrorist say no to: "McCain for president!"

Barack Hussein Obama II has supporters across the globe.  John Sidney McCain III appears to be the odd man out in that respect.  It's obvious who will be more welcome at meetings with our NATO allies. 

The first dude is a traitor and terrorist, but that is OK. Obama's name, that is bad. Welcome to right wing world.

Tappy,  You're treading on thin ice with your claims of 'terrorism'.  Show me one terrorist act committed by Todd Palin.  Then we can discuss Ayres, Wright, Flagler, Rezco, etc.

Welcome to the left wing world.

Sorry Pat but your argument doesn't hold water. McCain's problem is he is using Clinton's playbook. I guess no one told McCain she lost using those same plays he is now trying to use. The best thing to happen in the Dem campaign was for Clinton to draw it out and expose whatever dirty laundry Obama had. Now its old news. Jeremiah Wright, Ayers, FLagler, Rezco etc. have all been vetted by everyone including Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanon both neocons.

The thing I hate about the Republicans is they remind me of the kids that always told lies so you would be their friend, then when you found out the truth and decided not to be their friend anymore, they would spread lies about you. I think hypocricy is the word here.

The Republicans cry "Tax and spend Dems" when its the Republicans who have run up the largest deficits in world history. First under Reagan, and now under Bush. They cry "family values and character" but then you find out it is Republicans who are secretly meeting with gay lovers and doing meth with them, or hitting on cops in bathrooms or trying to sleep with 16 year old boys who are doing the summer page program.

It isn't just the policies we Americans hate about the Republicans its the hypocrisy. They want to talk about Ayers ok, thats fair. But lets talk about Keating? Which person has done the most to hurt America? Ayers or Keating? Ayers tried to bomb some buildings and I agree that if he were found guilty they should have thrown his a"** under the jail or tied him to some jumper cables and fried him. He was exonerated apparently and is now a professor. Keating used McCain to get regulations stalled in congress then went about raping the America taxpayers to the tune of 200 billion dollars. Real families lost their life savings and that affected their children's future even to this day.

Now John McCain is affiliated with another crook, Phil Graham who wrote the legislation we have today that caused all these bank failures by deregulating the banks. THere is a pattern here. Two massive economic failures and John McCain is associated with the people who are at the heart of it again.

Now if someone comes up and shows Obama meeting with known terrorists while an adult and while in a position of power, as John McCain was during the Keating 5 and as John McCain is during the current crisis, then we would have a pattern and maybe we could start questioning his character. There are no questions left about John McCain's character. He has none left.

PAT N - show me one terrorist act that Obama did?  The accusation is guilt by association.  Being in the board with an individual who at one time (in the 60's) was part of a terrorist group vs. being married to one who was a member of a secessionist party (Alaska Independece Party) is certainly more egregious.  If you want more information of the founding father of that party (Joe Vogle) here you go:

I understand, though, that we should not look back, only to the future (at least that is what Palin said to Joe Biden).  But, I guess this only applies to the Obama campaign, the McCain campaign can dredge (or should it be drill) anywhere it wants.

apologies for the double post - I received an error indicating that I should repost.

sorry, had problems with the link: 

I don't know why the link does not show up

I understand, though, that we should not look back, only to the future (at least that is what Palin said to Joe Biden).  But, I guess this only applies to the Obama campaign, the McCain campaign can dredge (or should it be drill) anywhere it wants.

RGM,  Obama's association with Ayers is more recent than Todd Palin's membership in the Alaskan Independent party.  So if his relationship with Wright...and Flagler...and Rezko...and Aulinski.

Seems to me the YOU are the one 'drilling in the past'.

The difference being that the actions that Ayers participated in was in the 60's, and he was never convicted of it.  The WSJ reviewed all the documents related to the relation between Obama and Ayers, and found . . .nothing.  However, Obama is still being accused of 'palling' around terrorists recently as of yesterday.  Todd Palin's affiliation with the AIP is certainly more recent, and certainly more direct with Sarah Palin - with Sarah Palin preparing a video for the same party as recent as last year.  So, I fail to see why 40 year old actions are relevant at all.  If Ayers was truly a terrorist, he would be in prison and not a professor in the University of Illinois (or are they aiding and abetting a terrorist?).

The difference being that the actions that Ayers participated in was in the 60's, and he was never convicted of it.  The WSJ reviewed all the documents related to the relation between Obama and Ayers, and found . . .nothing.  However, Obama is still being accused of 'palling' around terrorists recently as of yesterday.  Todd Palin's affiliation with the AIP is certainly more recent, and certainly more direct with Sarah Palin - with Sarah Palin preparing a video for the same party as recent as last year.  So, I fail to see why 40 year old actions are relevant at all.  If Ayers was truly a terrorist, he would be in prison and not a professor in the University of Illinois (or are they aiding and abetting a terrorist?).

OK...Where do I start.....

1)  Ayers said on 9/11 that he doesn't regret the bombings and in fact, thinks they didn't do enough.  Math wasn't my best subject in school, but I believe that comment was about 7 years ago.  Not 40.

2)  Ayers wasn't convicted because he got off on a technicality and the case was thrown out.  You can google it yourself or if you need help...I'll do it for you.

3)  Even Obama's Senior Advisor says that Obama and Ayers are "friendly".

4)  Ayers is but one person in a long list of questionable associations that Obama has.

5)  Obama is running for President.  Palin is the VP Nominee.  Todd palin isn't even running.

6)  Todd Palin has renounced his previous political affiliations.  Obama has not.  Ayers has not.

Todd Palin has renounced his previous political affiliations.  Obama has not.  Ayers has not.

Obama served on a board with the man ... PERIOD.

Obama served alongside Republicans and Democrats alike -- are THEY now affiliated with a terrorist as well?

Pat N

1. Regrets. I’m often quoted saying that I have “no regrets.” This is not true. For anyone paying attention—and I try to stay wide-awake to the world around me all/ways—life brings misgivings, doubts, uncertainty, loss, regret. I’m sometimes asked if I regret anything I did to oppose the war in Viet Nam, and I say “no, I don’t regret anything I did to try to stop the slaughter of millions of human beings by my own government.” Sometimes I add, “I don’t think I did enough.” This is then elided: he has no regrets for setting bombs and thinks there should be more bombings.

Source

Bill Ayers hiimself said this.

As well, Obama had a political affiliation?  Other than the one he currently has?

Obama served alongside Republicans and Democrats alike -- are THEY now affiliated with a terrorist as well?

Which republicans? Who are they and I will not vote or promote their views either! I will go after them with the same ferocity that if they were and possibly friends with a known terrorist (he cannot be termed part of a 60's terrorist group or used to be one, He by his own admissions still a unrepentant terrorist just not convicted due to technicalities.) They should hold no positions of honor or authority!

Darkdonnie

Which republicans? Who are they and I will not vote or promote their views either!

Senators of the 110th Congress

But that would make McCain seem like an elitist!

Should Obama begin calling McCain by his full name, John Sidney McCain III?

Sure.  Obama can use John Sidney McCain as often as he wishes and McCain can use Barrack Hussein Obama just as often.  There is no difference.

Obviously, most of the left wingers here have more of a problem with Obama's middle name than Obama himself does.

Lay off the caffeine, people.  It's just a middle name.  No need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

Pat N:

Lay off the caffeine, people. It's just a middle name. No need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

So Pat, just to clarify your position; you absolutely believe that when the Republican rallies emphasize Barack's middle name, that they are not doing it as a deliberate strategy to emphasize his "difference" (i.e. foreign, maybe possibly who knows, even Mulim?) from mainstream Americans?

So Pat, just to clarify your position; you absolutely believe that when the Republican rallies emphasize Barack's middle name, that they are not doing it as a deliberate strategy to emphasize his "difference" (i.e. foreign, maybe possibly who knows, even Mulim?) from mainstream Americans?

Exactly.  "Hussein" is no more 'different' than "Barrack" or "Obama", yet the left doesn't object to the use of those names.  They only object to the use of the name "Hussein" because of the word association to Saddam Hussein.

I don't know a single person who has decided not to vote for Obama on the basis of his middle name and to imply that you think people are stupid enough to base the future of their country on someone's middle name is absurd.

Biden used "John Sidney McCain" in the VP debate.  Would you think a Republican was thoroughly off their rocker if they claimed that this was 'reverse racism'?  Afterall, the name Sidney is very Anglo-Saxon.

Pat @ #11.4

I don't know a single person who has decided not to vote for Obama on the basis of his middle name and to imply that you think people are stupid enough to base the future of their country on someone's middle name is absurd.

You do now. Here. Let me help you. Sacheson  added this comment earlier today on this very thread:

I just called the most conservative person I know and said "does it bother you that Obama's middle name is 'Hussein'?"

His reply "HELL YES it does.  We need to let the world know about this Muslim terrorist that wants to take over our country from the top. (30 seconds more of ranting here)"

So I followed up with "And do you think it incites emotion when the McCain / Palin campaign mentions his middle name?"

Reply: "Every time I hear that eff'ers middle name I want to do something about it.  I hope others do too."

As Sacheson said, not using complex scientific methods.  But it does matter to some.

Lay off the caffeine, people.  It's just a middle name. No need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

;

Pat:

It's just so much fun when the Obama camp gets it's trousers in a twist over nothing.

They are so easily provoked by meaningless issues. That sensitivity reveals so much.

If nothing else, It's always good for a hearty laugh and some cocktail party chatter.

As Sacheson said, not using complex scientific methods.  But it does matter to some.

Have you ever heard me say that there aren't freaks on both sides of the fence?  If we're going to pull out previous posts, I believe I can grab one that shows you where I said "there are sheep on both sides".

If Sacheson's friend has so much pull that he can sway the vote singlehandedly based on a person's middle name...I'm in awe of the guy.

Fact of the matter is...(as is evidenced by posts by conservatives in this thread)...Obama's middle name seems to mean more to the left than it does the right. 

A)  It's his middle name and if he thought it would hurt him politically, he would have dumped it long ago.  he is obviously proud of it.

B)  The use of his middle name, should he be elected, will be used in the swearing in ceremony and on all official documents.  Will the left be this worried about it then?

'Yakety Yak'

Pat - trying to divert attention from your comment and the reply says more about you and your initial statement that started with "I don't know a single person..."

Pat:

It's just so much fun when the Obama camp gets it's trousers in a twist over nothing.

They are so easily provoked by meaningless issues. That sensitivity reveals so much.

If nothing else, It's always good for a hearty laugh and some cocktail party chatter.

Hey Shaun!

It IS fun to watch.  it's that hyper-sensitive thing I mentioned in an earlier post.  What's even MORE fun is to challenge them on their supposed 'outrage' and then watching them squirm.

 Must be a slow news day for something like Obama's middle name to be made into such an issue.

Pat - trying to divert attention from your comment and the reply says more about you and your initial statement that started with "I don't know a single person..."

Excuse me?  Just exactly where did I divert anything?  I stated "I don't know a single person...."  And I don't.  Are you implying that I know Sacheson's buddy?  How very strange.

 Must be a slow news day for something like Obama's middle name to be made into such an issue.

Agreed.

PatN:

I don't know a single person who has decided not to vote for Obama on the basis of his middle name and to imply that you think people are stupid enough to base the future of their country on someone's middle name is absurd.

I thank you for the candor to state your opinion straight out without spin, even though I do happen to disagree with your perspective.

Although I don't think that it is a huge issue, I do think that poliitcs sadly uses tactics involving smear, distortion, association, and innuendo, and I do believe that the McCain camp is deliberately engaging in appealing to xenophobes (and, BTW, neither am I saying the Democrats do not also use questionable tactics) with the emphasis placed on his ethnic and cultural background.

Fortunately, this will become less of an issue once President Obama has entered the history books (for better or for worse) ! ;)

PatN:

I don't know a single person who has decided not to vote for Obama on the basis of his middle name and to imply that you think people are stupid enough to base the future of their country on someone's middle name is absurd.

I thank you for the candor to state your opinion straight out without spin, even though I do happen to disagree with your perspective.

Although I don't think that it is a huge issue, I do think that poliitcs sadly uses tactics involving smear, distortion, association, and innuendo, and I do believe that the McCain camp is deliberately engaging in appealing to xenophobes (and, BTW, neither am I saying the Democrats do not also use questionable tactics) with the emphasis placed on his ethnic and cultural background.

Fortunately, this will become less of an issue once President Obama has entered the history books (for better or for worse) ! ;)

Although I don't think that it is a huge issue, I do think that poliitcs sadly uses tactics involving smear, distortion, association, and innuendo, and I do believe that the McCain camp is deliberately engaging in appealing to xenophobes (and, BTW, neither am I saying the Democrats do not also use questionable tactics) with the emphasis placed on his ethnic and cultural background.

Fortunately, this will become less of an issue once President Obama has entered the history books (for better or for worse) ! ;)

Uthaclena,

Like I said...there's idiots on both sides of the fence...but I think the percentage of Americans that these people represent is so minimal, it's not going to be significant.  It makes for a good talking point on a message board, but that's it.

There are people at the extreme right that claim Obama is a Muslim Terrorist.  There are people on the extreme left who claim Trig (the special needs baby) isn't really Sarah's...but the product of an incestuous relationship between Todd and Bristol.

To think that either of this people are going to sway the independent voter that hasn't made up their mind yet...just doesn't fly.

On your second comment..."President Obama"?  OUCH!  That has a sting to it.  =)

Pat N, watch the video in #1.55 and tell me that it doesn't matter.

ShaunV,

The left is sensitive? What about the "lipstick on a pig" thing that turned into a bunch of red-faced Republicans on Fox news demanding Obama apologize to their little Barbie Doll for the comment? OK, Obama himself does not mind his middle name, but he does not introduce himself that way because not many people do. If that's how he introduced himself, then the right could use it, but if not, they shouldn't. Don't pretend to be all innocent and say we're getting upset over nothing. There is a clear reason they are using it. The only people who are stupid enough to connect the name to a terrorist are the people who sit in their trailer homes and molest their cousins. I think you already had that vote.

What desperate and shamefully stupid of these right wing scare mongerers. What i don't get is, aren't they aware that this is old news and the far right bigots who think Obama is evil and could even be a communist spy have already been convinced by all that trash the Republicans put out looong time ago? There are no more people to try and persuade on this crap. Don't they realise that by doing what they are actively doing now ,they are convincing the independent voters that they indeed have nothing else of substance  to talk about?

Wow.  This has to be the most paranoid rant I've read in a long time.  Thanks for posting it.  It was kind of like watching a train wreck.  A tragedy, but still fascinating to watch it go up in flames.

Exatcly Pat N, anyone who doesn't agree with the right wing bull@!$%# is either paranoid, unpatriotic or simply not savvy enough to see through Obama. Guess what, we get it. Your times of spinning crap is over. We , the smart Americans can see through YOU finally!

Kobby,

No...you're just silly for voting for a man you know nothing about.  I said your RANT was paranoid...not YOU are paranoid.  (So stop being paranoid.)

Here's some of the "spinning crap" I'd like to see you address:

A)  What happens to jobs when/if Obama implements the tax rate he proposes on the businesses that create them?  They move overseas to more corporation friendly nations.  I don't know about you, but I've nevr been offered a job by a poor person.

B)  How does Obama plan to give "tax breaks to 95% of Americans" AND increase spending by over a trillion dollars in the current economy?

C)  His health care plan includes EVERYBODY.  I'm surprised you support your taxes paying for health care for multi-billionaire retirees.  That's something most liberals would be against.

D)  There is an old adage that says "You are judged by the company you keep".  This adage has been along far longer than the current campaign cycle.  The company Obama keeps is Ayers, Wright, Rezko, Flagler, etc.

So kobby....let's hear how this actual issues...that have zero to do with Obama's middle name...are "spin".

Well, at least we see where Pat N gets informed.  I get some FoxNews there, a little TownHall, maybe some Malkin thrown in to add some balance?

There's no debating here ... move on.  Quit fueling this fire.

Sacheson,

If there is no debating on a message board, what is there?  Is this supposed to be a love-fest between members of the same party?  A cheerleading event for Obama, perhaps?  I was always under the impression that these boards were for expression of opinion on the issue at hand.

Pat,
Discussion is two-way.  Listening and speaking, and equal amounts of both.  It's also helpful when it is backed up by facts and rational conclusions from them, preferrably with some citation. I can assure you that many of the folks on these boards are either just like you, or what you'd probably classify consider "an extremeist leftwing democrat", but what I call an in-tune Obama supporter, or they are undecided.  You are not going to win dedicated Obama people with your slander, and you are probably not going to win over the undecided people. At this point in the game, the undecideds are probably the most rational, fact-checking people out there because they want to make sure they make the best decision.  Until you and all of the McCain voters can figure this out and get your act together, you can expect to see Obama continuing his lead.

Obama-Biden '08

Oh, and Obama's middle name "Hussein" means "Handsome One."  Not "associates with terrorists."  US Officials first met Saddam Hussein in 1959.  Obama was born in 1961.  Relation?  I think not.

You are not going to win dedicated Obama people with your slander, and you are probably not going to win over the undecided people.

SMR,

Please show me one slanderous comment I've made.  Have I been blunt.  'You Betchya.'  Have I called a spade a spade?  Yep.  Have I thrown crap back at people who tossed out the first mudball?  Sure thing.

I am not here to try and "sway" anyone.  I never have believed in overt manipulation and don't plan to start now.  I AM here to call people out on their fake outrage over insignificant issues and challenge their sometimes slanted and one sided positions.  I apologize if I have interupted some sort of touchy-feelie 'Let's all Love Obama"-fest.

Very good Pat N!!! especially the "Let's all Love Obomba"-fest!

Thanks, sevens!

I'm amused by Schmitt's quote.  Not unexpectedly, the top 3 real questions don't include issues, policies or plans. 

Fighting fire with fire, confronting the lies, just watch Joe, when it comes to vote time, the quiet ones like me might just upset your apple cart. But if he by some chance wins, LOOK-OUT and remember 'I TOLD YOU SO'!!!!!

Brian you are absolutely right!

OBAMA/BIDEN 08

Thank you.  I think there are more of us out there then people think and I hope that rational thought will prevail.  Keep up the fight!

Brian,
I believe you're right and we are going to make a showing at the polls, wait and see. 
It doesn't matter what his name is, it doesn't matter who he associates with.  What matters is where he stands on the issues.  And, if you're uninformed enough to be swayed because of a person's NAME, you don't deserve the right to vote anyway IMHO.

Raat ki Raani,
Your opinion is welcome here on Newsvine, thank you so much for your input. :)

Marked #17.1 - Tue Oct 7, 2008 1:01 PM EDT as inflammatory.

Shaun - it is sad to see that you've allowed yourself to stoop to that level. As you well know, the results of your forthcoming election are of interest to the whole wide world. Whether you like it or not.

I will assume you're just having a bad hair day.

Shaun - it is sad to see that you've allowed yourself to stoop to that level. As you well know, the results of your forthcoming election are of interest to the whole wide world. Whether you like it or not.

I noticed you conveniently dodged the question about your own glass house, RR.

You originate from India.  They have plenty of homeless there.  You now live in England. I noticed you did not stick around in India to help anyone in your homeland. I have been to india and there is a huge underclass that needs attention.

I am surprised that you have stooped so low to abandon your homeland rather than stick around and attempt to solve anything. Yet you show so much interest in another courntry's politics.

Like I said....it's so much easier to avoid the real issues that might effect you directly, and that you might be able to influence and focus on issues that you have no control over.

Some people seem to be borrowing a play out of McCain's playbook.

Playing dumb and thinking everyone will believe you doesn't seem to be working as well as it used to. Maybe that's because that strategy has been so overused lately.

For the record, Shaun, I was born and brought up in Kenya. Go figure why I am so interested in how some of your countrymen cast their votes. The whole world is paying for the results that came out after the last two attempts. There was every reason to ignore your question. On Newsvine, we call it off-topic.

Shaun, I was born and brought up in Kenya.

Well that country has even more problems.  It's shame that you did not feel motivated to stick around and solve Kenya's problems or to go back there as an educated adult.As I said, it's so much easier to flee to another country and then instead of getting involved in that countries politics to hang out on message boards jawing about things you have little influence over and can not vote to change. What a pity.  Your strong opinions could do much to change Kenya.To borrow your words.....are you having a bad hair day?

Of course you did not answer my question. There is no plausible defense to my statement. Either you are fixing the problems where you live, or you are not. Obviously you are not.

Are you talking about glass houses Shaun? Or class houses? Your keeping on making assumptions about me are seriously undermining your credibility on NV, Shaun. Honestly, it's not worth pursuing.

blockquote>

Interesting that you focus on "class houses" instead of my own words.Given your background I would say you know much about "class houses" given your background. 
You also likely know much about mobbing.I think the poeple that are seriously undermining credibility on Newsvine are those who chose to quash free speech and collapse my comment simply because they don't agree with it. 

BTW: Raat Ki, your opinion, is of no value to me and I am not concerned about what the a few close minded liberals on Newsvine think of me. You apparently are, though.

. But I am glad you won't be pursuing your denial of the facts I presented, any further.

Are you talking about glass houses Shaun? Or class houses?

It took you quite a while to catch that nuance.

I am referring to class houses.....it was meant to be an spin on glass houses. Thank you for noticing.

But to spin on your words:  I do think that people who live in glass houses should indeed keep their cloths on. What do you think?

Shaun, to notice some of your replies, the one thing I did pick up on is the fact that you are doing exactly what you accuse the McCain camp of doing, being a bigot and racist. It doesn't matter if I agree with RkR or not, for you to accuse a person of running or not caring is so Democratic today.

I did pick up on is the fact that you are doing exactly what you accuse the McCain camp of doing, being a bigot and racist.

Sevens:You must be confused.  I support McCain and do not consider any thing he has done to be bigotry or hatred..

for you to accuse a person of running or not caring is so Democratic today.

Actually you sound like a far left liberal democrat.....I stated a fact. Sorry that the facts offend you.

I will state it again.  If RKR is so politically concerned....why is he not attempting to change the negative things about the countries he has lived in and perhaps can vote in? 

Taking a position and following through requires effort and involvement.....not just talk. Talk is easy.

I will state it again. 

And let me repeat myself. Derailing threads is not good conduct on Newsvine.

Sorry you had to weigh in Tyler. You're right, I could have done better too.

Raat,

As an American, I know I speak for many of us. Your considerate and thoughtful opinion is always welcome, as is the opinion of anybody else, from anywhere else. I wish we Americans were as aware of the rest of the world as the world is of us. We would all be better off.

In short, it doesn't matter whether you or RkR are typing on an iPhone in Jerusalem or naked on a IBM in Bangladesh

lol

Thanks for the visual, Tyler.

Thanks Ian. Your words strike deep within - they represent the sea of humanity that surrounds us all. No matter who we are or where. Here, there and everywhere else.

Arcane - didn't get a chance to thank you for your initial comment. You're right - Tyler's visual had me in stitches. I must refrain from working at the keyboard sans clothes:-)

Raat ki Raani --

As far as I am concerned, the opinions of people from other countries are nearly if not as important to the success of America as the opinions of US Citizens. The current government underestimates the power of image to the rest of the world, and the importance of world standing. We cannot simply bully everyone out of our way. It is easier to have other countries help you when they like you.

When I was living in Europe, often one of the first things that would come out of people's mouths is "Bush", in some context or another. This didn't bode well for their attitude towards me. I heard on the radio today that a girl in Italy was wearing an Obama button and she was let to the front of the line at a museum, and a small village in Nigeria had an Obama poster.

And irregardless of political power, different opinions are welcome.

Thanks unfooled. It works both ways. Others can always see us better than we can ourselves. It's a valuable lesson in life. Obviously, there are cultural nuances at play too. But the greater exposure we all have to those nuances, the better we can become at building lasting relationships that are freer of national identities. And hopefully get smarter at dealing with global conflict. Previous generations throughout history didn't do too well. But then, in their defence, they didn't have social media and Web 2.0 tools to transend borders. We do these days. I say embrace and leverage them.

I'm from Jacksonville Florida and can speak first hand to the racism there. Its changed somewhat, but Jacksonville is the diehard south akin to what you might find in Mississippi.

I won't even respond anymore to neocons pretending they don't know what the problem with screaming "Hussein" is. They know. Just like they knew who bombed the church during the civil rights movement that killed 4 little girls. Just like they knew who killed Medgar Evers. Just like they knew about lynchings and murders that are still unresolved to this day.

To all who want to hold on to their racist ways I say this. God is still God and He never was and never will be racist. To the contrary He is righteous. The day will come when we will all have to face Him in pure nakedness. We won't be able to hide behind coded statements like "he isn't like us"

This goes back to my original comment about the hypocrisy of the neocons. Most claim to be Christian. Yet it was the Apostle Paul in the new testament that quoted an Old testament truth..

"And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation" Act 17:26.

I can quote 1000 scriptures to show how racism is a sin greater than anything most preachers talk about today. From the reason Cain killed his brother Abel to Lucifer being filled with pride because he was brighter than the other angels, and this pride causing him to be cast down from heaven.

But of course neocons and evangelicals don't read those scripture. I guess they tear that part of their bibles out and burn them as heresy.

So now we are told saying a persons legal name is racist. Amazing.....

 There's a negative connotation to Obama's middle name, it's a racial and racist connotation, and the deliberate invocation of that name for that racist connotation is bigotry, pure and simple.
Then have him change his birth certificate.

Sounds to me like Sarah Palin is calling you a racist.

Sorry, the guilt trip does not work with me.

Killfile,

IV is being deliberately obtuse, which leads me to believe they are racists too, which is why they are trying to make light of the situation.

IV, no one is trying to guilt you - you're doing that to yourself.  You know it's not right.  If your name was used in a negative connotation, you'd be singing another tune.  So do us all a favor and stop, okay?  We get it, you're a racist.

Independantvoter, they'll call you a racist because thats all they know how to do, thats what the Obama camp is all about...As long as they can scream racist it rallies the black voter.

Obama camp is all about...As long as they can scream racist it rallies the black voter.

You have a very disturbing racial way of viewing everything in the world. Why is that? Does that candidate's skin color bother you? Is that all you see when you look at his candidacy? What's behind your fixation?

L.E. I really could less about his skin color, what I care about are the people voting for him just because of his skin color, 95% of all black voters are voting for Obama, why is that? its not because he is a better candidate, more experience, better judgment, or even holds America in great light. its simply because he is black.

Why do you think I'm on here day after day asking people to research their candidates to look at their backgrounds and see where they've been and where they will take this country. It shouldn't make a damn bit of difference if the candidate is Black or purple for that matter but it does make a difference when that is the only reason they are supporting him, skin and the fact that he is making promises he will never keep and he is a good orator

IV it's as silly as using McCain's full name: John Sidney McCain III and prancing or elbowing each other and winking. Like he's gay or a pansy or some other reference. They use Obama's middle name to try to prove that means he is or has ties to terrorists. If he does... McCain is gay.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult any gay people, I like you far more than McCain and to reference you to him has to be a huge insult.

Beverly H:

In my observation, many people who judge others based on their race heatedly deny their own racism.

Regarding

95% of all black voters are voting for Obama, why is that? its not because he is a better candidate, more experience, better judgment, or even holds America in great light. its simply because he is black.

First, when is the last time any of us, caucasian, latino, oriental or black had a chance to vote for a mainstream black candidate? Oh... we haven't!!

Oh, and

its not because he is a better candidate

vs John McCain, Bush's Third Term? Yes, Obama is the better candidate. Not as good as i'd really like. But better than more of the same.

By the way,

95% of all black voters are voting for Obama,

is false.

check and mate.

I have to remind myself this is a liberal blog...this is a liberal blog...this is a liberal blog

Excellent proof to back your false claim, Beverly.

Stonestreet is an idiot. Obama is not a Muslim closet or otherwise.

Yes, they know what they are doing, being coy as you said, feigning surprise anyone would call them on their deliberate drawing out and emphasizing of the middle name to fuel the notion that there may be some "muslim in there".

And of course readily disassociating themselves from the more the overtly bigoted like Jeff.

That's exactly correct.....Sheriff Mike Scott....complete with his uniform and badge, thus politicizing FL law enforcement by extension....made a mocking reference to the name Hussein....

I think he may have been out of line by appearing in uniform...

and here she goes again...using her children for political gain....how does she know that the protester wasn't a surviving parent of someone who'd given his life in Iraq or Afghanistan?

self righteous hypocrite, much?

And he promised to LOWER TAXES for SENIORS who are still working and earning less than $50K

GOOD FOR HIM!

My relatives need that !

Here is a flash for you. Seniors, collecting SS and not working that make less that 50K don't pay taxes now.

The majority of working people in America don't pay taxes or very little.

The majority of working people in America don't pay taxes or very little.

Absolutely astounding! Where did you come up with that fact. In case you live where there aren't many of those pesky "working people" around, those of us who do have to deal with them and are even some of them would like to ask you to double check your facts--we don't need to: we get our facts in the form of payroll deductions, sales taxes tacked on to every thing we buy and annual property tax bills that hurt like getting punched in the gut.

What world are you living in?

We all pay sales tax unless you are in a state like Oregon that has none, but The majority of people pay a very small amount of taxes on income and in some cases none at all, the Higher wage earners pay like 75% percent of the taxes all ready. and I am not one of the higher wage earners, I am closer to the bottom of the middle class

Higher wage earners pay like 75% percent of the taxes all ready.

The top tax rate in the world is Dutch at 68%. The top tax rate in America is 38% and has been so for a generation.  Again, your facts are amazing.

Yes, this usually only happens late in elections when candidates need to sure up their own base. In the currrent scenario, most of the battlegrounds are in republican held states, and some of the cases they are losing in Republican strongholds within these states.

It unfortunate that this election process is often won through subtle and no-so-subtle fear and hatred, masked as the quest for truth.

 
Sarah Palin is being used basically in very right Repub enclaves in Florida, and nowhere else.

Undoubtedly, Palin's primary purpose is to animate the Republican primatives, but she did give a speech in Clearwater--part of the Democratic stronghold of Tampa.

But, I suppose where she vents her bile isn't relevant if the media picks it us and distributes it all over the world.

You mean this?

http://ombra.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/07/1963361-unleashed-palin-makes-a-pit-bull-look-tame

This is a Christian woman??