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Leaving Lieberman - Why The Democrats Are Better Off Without Joe Liberman

Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:01 PM EST
politics, obama, democrats
By Killfile

Liberman poses with McCain during the 2008 Election. Image from Wikipedia.

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The political headline of the moment is that Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT) will filibuster the most recent compromise-healthcare-reform legislation hammered out in the Senate. While one hesitates to use the term "Judas" in reference to the Senator given his Jewish roots, the phrase is an apt one (though not for religious reasons) and one can not help but wonder what Lieberman's 30 pieces of silver are in this latest betrayal. Much of Lieberman's Senatorial power - from committee chairmanships to his preserved seniority within the caucus - stems from Obama's unusual willingness to forgive and forget the Connecticut Senator's endorsement of McCain in the 2008 Presidential race. It was then and now a decision that many in the Democratic Party thought would come back to haunt the President and now, with the healthcare vote down to the wire and Lieberman's announcement, it appears that it finally has.


Lieberman's promise of a filibuster is not merely grounded in some proposal that the Connecticut Senator finds objectionable; it's a rejection of a compromise that Lieberman himself already approved, albeit tacitly. As Ezra Klein at the Washington Post reports, "Lieberman was invited to participate in the process that led to the Medicare buy-in. His opposition would have killed it before liberals invested in the idea. Instead, he skipped the meetings and is forcing liberals to give up yet another compromise."

Certainly Lieberman enjoys a position of some power in the Senate - his membership in the caucus, at least in theory, puts the Democrats above the magical 60-vote-threshold necessary to halt a Republican Filibuster, yet there is a tone in the press releases and news conferences surrounding the healthcare debate that seems to invest Joe Liberman with a great deal more power than the single vote he actually wields.

In recent decades the Democrats have opted for the Big-Tent strategy of politics while the Republicans have undertaken a series of ideological purges from within their own ranks. Today we see the results of that. While the Democratic Party consists of waring factions of liberals, conservatives, blue dogs, and independents the Republican Party exhibits party discpline on a level rarely before seen in Washington. As a result the Democratic caucus is larger, but fractious. The leadership struggles for every vote and thus Lieberman, who should be relegated to the sidelines, finds himself courted by the Party if only because, while not a Democrat, he is not a Republican either.

The Democrats had their chance. Lieberman's break with the Party and his subsequent endorsement of McCain in the 2008 race gave the party leadership the opportunity to be rid of a Senator who has consistently been a thorn in the Party's side. Obama chose to forgive and forget. The President had, no doubt, his reasons for welcoming Lieberman back into the Democratic fold after the 2008 election. Certainly the Democrats looked to have a long legislative fight ahead of them and it wasn't until September of this year that the Democrats plus the Senate's two independents constituted a 60 vote super-majority.

Strangely, that super-majority is the problem.

As great as those 60 votes look on paper, the simple fact of the matter is that the Democrats don't really have them. What they do have is a fractious alliance of conflicting political factions none of which are terribly intent upon compromise. In short, what the Democrats have is the appearance of a super-majority, all the political expectations of a super majority, and none of the benefits.

It is that expectation of a super-majority that has given Lieberman his unusual position within the Democratic Senatorial Caucus. Had the Democrats 59 votes or 58 as they had at the start of the 2009 legislative session, expectations would be very different. 60 votes - even if they are only on paper - makes Democratic objections to Republican obstructionism seem absurd. The Democratic leadership has some options open to it which might address the constant threat of a Republican filibuster - reconciliation among them - but appearance of such measures undertaken by a party that, at least in name, already has a stranglehold on the Senatorial process, is far from politic.

As the screws tighten down on Harry Reid and the Democrats' self-imposed Christmas deadline for a health insurance bill draws closer, Lieberman's particular brand of politics looks less and less like business as usual on the Hill and more and more like deliberate sabotage. If Christmas come and goes and the Democrats don't have a healthcare bill to stuff in their stockings you can bet the Senate leadership will be looking for someone to blame.

Lieberman may threaten to leave the caucus but, if they cannot count on his vote, the Democrats will be better off without him.

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  • Public Discussion (138)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
Ozark Mountain Sage
I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat.
Will Rogers
  • 19 votes
#1 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:30 PM EST
Killfile

Ain't that the truth. I sometimes think that the hardest job in DC is being the Democratic Whip. That guy's like a professional cat herder.

  • 19 votes
#1.1 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:37 PM EST
KGMO

They should give him a real whip.

  • 15 votes
#1.2 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:35 PM EST
R. Donald Snyder

And use it on Liberman...................then after the beating kick him out of the caucus.

  • 23 votes
#1.3 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:37 PM EST
UNCLEMIKE

And then beat him again....and again.

  • 19 votes
#1.4 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:33 PM EST
R. Donald Snyder

and again.....and again....and again......

  • 17 votes
#1.5 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:06 PM EST
eriq samson

Kinky!

I like it!

  • 13 votes
#1.6 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:33 PM EST
R. Donald Snyder

Thank you Hedy Lamarr....er....."Hedley!"

;-)

  • 13 votes
#1.7 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:54 PM EST
Bill-Weeks

Senator Liberman is true statesman. We are fortunate to have him in the Senate. He is working to achieve health-care reform without further bankrupting the country. I disappointed, but not surprised that the liberal left is hammering him in blogosphere. I believe many of these folks haven't really had to earn that which they enjoy: being American's.

  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:31 AM EST
GrayHouse

Senator Liberman is true statesman. We are fortunate to have him in the Senate. He is working to achieve health-care reform without further bankrupting the country.

But Liberman is on video just a few weeks ago proposing the very elements he now objects to. It doesn't seem that he is a "true statesman" but instead is now trying to leverage his critical vote for a juicy behind-closed-doors deal. I appreciate true independence in voting and not toeing the party line, but Liberman's flip-flop on this seems to be more based on opportunism rather than principle.

  • 12 votes
#1.9 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:02 AM EST
MRZK.COM

Listen, I'm tired of the 'haven't earned' speech. I've worked thirty years and have had my fill of dirty wars, corporate bailouts and crooked contracting. Why aren't these welfare programs for the rich ever attacked in the same way as working people are every day?

Lieberman is a two-faced traitor that I wouldn't trust with a one dollar bill. He is all ego and will do anything to get media coverage.

  • 12 votes
#1.10 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:07 PM EST
buttzie

It's well know that his wife works for a advertising company, whose clients include major health insurance companies. There has to be an allowance for the grounds of complicity. This may be conjecture, but it's certainly not a far fetched idea. A politician lining his pockets is pretty much the norm.

  • 6 votes
#1.11 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:03 PM EST
Rusty007

Has anybody noticed the resemblance between Lieberman and that certain Senator in the Star Wars movies? Uncanny resemblance both in appearance and political acumen.

He gives me the creeps!

  • 3 votes
#1.12 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:45 PM EST
Shaw in WA

Lieberman is a hypocrite. Not long ago he was passionate about expanding Medicare to the uninsured. Now he's against it? I think he is just being petty over the fallout after supporting McCain in the presidential election and getting taken to the woodshed over it. No statesman, there...just another politician with a personal agenda. He should remember to vote according to what's good for the country and what the country wants, not what puts a band-aid on his bruised ego. Kick his hyprocritcal butt out of the Democratic caucus.

If we do not pass a health care bill that has some sort of a public option, we are just handing a new group of policyholders, required to buy insurance, to the existing health insureres who are the very reason we need a public option in the first place. Gosh...I guess it's Merry Christmas for the status quo!

Shame on Lieberman!

  • 6 votes
#1.13 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 PM EST
Kathleen54

The democrats need to kick Lieberman's butt off any committee they can. Obama extended the olive branch and got smacked in the face with it, as did thousands of working Americans. Government is becoming more of a sham every day. This latest betrayal is nothing short of infuriating.

  • 8 votes
#1.14 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:38 PM EST
Al-457149

The problem with Lieberman is that he's not acting on any discernible principle, other than pure spite toward the Democrats, who dumped him when he couldn't even win his own state primary a few years ago.

If he opposed parts of health care based on principle, and if he honored his word, people would respect him. He does no such thing.

He's turned into an attention whore and a drama queen.

If I could, I'd move to Connecticut just so I could vote against him next time he's up for re-election.

  • 2 votes
#1.15 - Sat Jan 9, 2010 10:01 PM EST
Reply
Patriotic Dissenter

and one can not help but wonder what Liberman's 30 pieces of silver are in this latest betrayal

It's called common sense. Instead of passsing some trumped up fiscal behemoth of a bill, Joe actually wants to put together a bill that cheaper and better -- two things that this Pelosi/Obama b.s is not. Go figure that 61% of Americans think this bill is crap and yet BO and the dems still want to railroad it through says volumes. Dingy Harry keeping the bill a secret until the CBO rates it is just hysterical. Even Dick Turbin says he has no idea what's in the bill seeing that his boss has kept them all from reading it. Yet, Dingy HArry wants people to commit to something they have not read. Typical liberal politics.

Can someone please tell me if any domestic legislation in our nation's history been passed that a vast majority of Americans did not want? Medicare? GOP was on board. Civil Rights? GOP helped make it come to fruition. Obama, like the good little Socialist tyrant he is, would want to pass this thing in the face of 61% of Americans saying they do not like the bill as it is written. Go Joe!

  • 6 votes
#2 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:38 PM EST
Killfile

It's called common sense. Instead of passsing some trumped up fiscal behemoth of a bill, Joe actually wants to put together a bill that cheaper and better

Except he doesn't. Sorry, but no. Look, Joe was invited to participate in the session where they thrashed out this compromise and instead he elected to sit home, let the interested parties work out a solution and then indicate that he wasn't going to sign on.

It's one thing to be disinterested in a bill; it's another to want to make sure that it's not drain on the treasury; but neither of those things are the same as opting out of a major planning session and negotiation only to show up after the fact and declare yourself opposed... particularly when that opposition is a major change of course for you.

Can someone please tell me if any domestic legislation in our nation's history been passed that a vast majority of Americans did not want?

The vast majority of Americans want a public option - indeed a bill more liberal than what's presently before Congress. If you want to point your anti-populist finger at anyone it oughtn't be the left of the Democratic Party.

Medicare? GOP was on board.

Conservatives have opposed Medicare, Social Security, and basically every other meaningful social safety net program this country has. They've called it "socialism" every time.

  • 33 votes
#2.1 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:56 PM EST
MotherKnowsBest-719453Deleted
doceft

Go figure that 61% of Americans think this bill is crap and yet BO and the dems still want to railroad it through says volumes.

I agree with MotherKnowsBest-719453. Show me a link that is responsible and verifiable (that rules out the Murdock school of fantasy - FoxNews)and I will agree with your premise that the majority of the country is opposed to this bill. Otherwise, I put you in the DeMint camp of "do and say anything" to defeat the President.

  • 17 votes
#2.3 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:59 PM EST
Brandon T David

From Rasmussen:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Does not look good to those of us who support it.

  • 2 votes
#2.4 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:30 PM EST
Patriotic Dissenter

CNN Folks? CNN reports 61% AGAINST THE HEALTH CARE BILL. Please. Even when the vast majority of Americans are against this thing, Chairman Maobama wants to jam this b.s through.

http://www.vot3r.com/stories/61-americans-against-democrat-8217-s-nationalized-health-care-bill/

  • 4 votes
#2.5 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:36 PM EST
madvargr

Too bad he represents Connecticut - The Quinnipiac Poll is showing Ct residents supporting Public Option by 3 to 1. Not to mention the incredible state version of Public Option Connecticut already has...

  • 12 votes
#2.6 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:25 PM EST
KGMO

The above referrenced CNN poll shows 53% for the public option vs. 46% against.

What the conservatives aren't talking about is the Liberals who oppose this bill because it doesn't go far enough to cover everyone or reduce costs.

  • 14 votes
#2.7 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:35 PM EST
Killfile

KGMO,

That's about 12% of respondents or about 1/4 of those opposed to the bill.

  • 8 votes
#2.8 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:54 PM EST
Mr. Bill Davis

Lying man is a corporate whore. You don't really think he does anything that is in the average American's best interests? He does whatever his lobbyist wife tells him to do.

  • 11 votes
#2.9 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:31 PM EST
Free Mason-1490678Deleted
jawill11

Maybe Leiberman just didn't want the middle class getting stiffed yet again?

Ha. Good one. Joe Lieberman, champion of the middle class. People like him rely on members of the middle class being stupid enough to believe his lies and vote for him while he steps on the middle class and takes that corporate cash.

  • 12 votes
#2.11 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:39 AM EST
Sick'N'Tired'Of'It

Maybe Leiberman just didn't want the middle class getting stiffed yet again?

only one problem with that scenario:

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/video-watch-lieberman-endorse-medicare-buy-in-three-months-ago/

Whenever someone backtracks so much in such a short time after so long with no outside indication of "why"- generally? their lying.

  • 7 votes
#2.12 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:49 AM EST
Free Mason-1490678Deleted
Darkwood

Ah, FM, you have invoked the name of the clear minded one, Michelle Bachman. At last a true visionary. She does does have visions and delusions. But it is useless to try to make ground by scaring the middle class because it has already been outsourced.

  • 3 votes
#2.14 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:33 AM EST
MRZK.COM

Ever hear of "The Patriot Act"? Wasn't that a good read?

  • 2 votes
#2.15 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:14 PM EST
Lone Ranger-1249924

Patriotic - If, as you say, 61% of Americans don't want this bill it would be because it does hardly anything for Healthcare Insurance reform. I think 61% of Americans want a public option.

  • 3 votes
#2.16 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:42 PM EST
Patriotic Dissenter

I think 61% of Americans want a public option.

According to CNN 61% do not want what is currently on the table as healthcare reform. Americans want reform. There is no doubt about that. They do not, however, want the reform that Reid and Pelosi and Obama are offering. This entire healthcare reform was predicated on the fact that insurance is too expensive and not enough people are insured. Now it has morphed to 94% of Americans are insured and there is no guarantee that it will be cheaper. On the contrary, most assume that this reform will result in even higher premiums to go along with rationed care. This healthcare reform is absolutely 100% about BO getting 17% of the GDP under his thumb. Nothing about Obama is altruistic. He is all about the power (he is a lawyer for God's sake).

If Obama was truly serious about reform he would have set up trial runs, mayber 13 states and see in 5 years if costs can really be contained. Also, if he was honest about this thing being deficit neutral why not wait until gubmint programs produce profits which then will offset any healthcare expenses? Because no gubmint program ever makes a profit and in ten years we will see this thing will add trillions to the debt. But why would BO care? Healthcare reform will not be instituted until 2014.

  • 1 vote
#2.17 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:48 PM EST
Rusty007

P.D., I think we have to think about the word "cheaper" as being cheaper than what? Doing nothing? If premiums keep rising at the current rate, many millions of Americans will lose their employer-based coverage. Cheaper than now vs. cheaper than projections five years from now? The CBO uses those projections and sees a net savings over time. We owe it to ourselves to keep these spiraling increase in premiums in mind when we crunch the numbers.

What other alternatives would you suggest that would be better than the House or Senate plans currently voted on or being voted on? How would they slow the rate of increase in premiums? Has anyone asked the CBO to study those alternatives? I haven't heard of any.

  • 3 votes
#2.18 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:29 PM EST
Al-457149

Patriotic Dissenter

CNN Folks? CNN reports 61% AGAINST THE HEALTH CARE BILL. Please. Even when the vast majority of Americans are against this thing, Chairman Maobama wants to jam this b.s through.

Did you actually read the poll? While it did say that 61% of those surveyed were against the Senate bill on that date. It also said the following:
- 53% FAVOR a public option.
- 79% believe that the Senate bill would increase the deficit

This says 2 things to me:
- The Senate is not following the will of the people (thanks Joe Lieberman!)
- The Republicans are far more successful at cranking out their message than the Dems, and Americans don't take the time to do their own research. After all, the nonpartisan CBO said that the Senate bill will NOT raise the deficit, although Fox News constantly says otherwise.

BTW, "Maobama" is pretty disingenuous, considering he saved the banking system earlier this year. Since you brought up Communism, the last time we had an unchecked banking collapse was in 1933, leading to 25% unemployment. Not coincidentally, the various communist/socialist parties in this country enjoyed their highest membership in the 1930s.


    #2.19 - Sat Jan 9, 2010 10:33 PM EST
    Al-457149

    One more thing...

    Now is the window for a major health care reform to happen in this decade. 2010 is an election year, the Dems will lose some seats for the 2011-12 Congress (normal for a mid-term election), and 2012 is a Presidential election year.

    There's no way that Obama could do anything other than a big bill, because the Repubs have publicly said that their intention is to make health care his "Waterloo," public will be damned. This bill could have been much better with sincere bipartisan effort, but that was not possible.

    Once this bill passes, then health care will evolve and be improved over time. This is a historical pattern which other landmark legislation has followed. For example, Social Security originally excluded blacks, but that was fixed.

    This bill isn't perfect, but it's far, far better than the alternative.

      #2.20 - Sat Jan 9, 2010 10:47 PM EST
      Reply
      greg-709692

      Payoff's can come back to bite you in the butt!

      Lieberman won as an "Independant", backed "McCain", the democrats kept him as "Head" of the committee, thought the payoff would work, AND IT'S NOT!

      What does the Left do now? Tries to throw him under the bus, AGAIN!

      • 6 votes
      #3 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:48 PM EST
      kiml

      A bus isn't big enough.

      • 12 votes
      #3.1 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:53 PM EST
      greg-709692

      Oh kiml!

      I know you didn't vote for him, but he won anyway, under a different banner. Why does the Left now blame him for not voting left, when he didn't run on that platform anymore?

      • 4 votes
      #3.2 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:55 PM EST
      Killfile

      The left blames him because they let him back into the fold and he stabbed them in the back.

      Now, I'll bet he first to admit that not punishing Liberman back in 2008 wasn't a good decision... but that doesn't change the fact that what he did is a betrayal.

      • 19 votes
      #3.3 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:57 PM EST
      greg-709692

      So, The Left lets him in, based on the fact, he went against them during the Senate race and the Presidential race, and they thought they could change him, after they "Stabbed him in the back" during the Senate Race?

      Wonder why he ran as an "Independant".

      Sometimes, "For the good" really means what it means, and Lieberman has seen the light!

      • 4 votes
      #3.4 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:06 PM EST
      KGMO

      It's all B.S. anyway. If we run anyone serious against him, he'll lose his seat and we geta a real Democrat.

      That's what the deal is going to be. No serious opposition. Were going to see some no name state Senator run against Liebermann on the Democratic ticket. He'll get re-elected. That's the payoff.

      • 8 votes
      #3.5 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:51 PM EST
      Burlap Mudflap

      greg

      re#3.4

      If you guys want Joe take him.

      I doubt GOPers will be able to trust him any more than Dems!

      • 11 votes
      #3.6 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:24 PM EST
      greg-709692

      We gave you Specter.

      Let's see!

      Lieberman, Specter, Lieberman, Specter, Lieberman, Specter.

      You keep Specter and We'll take Joe. At least Joe has some sense!

      • 1 vote
      #3.7 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:56 AM EST
      Free Mason-1490678Deleted
      Killfile

      I agree with Greg. Heaven forbid the Dems have any free thinkers in the mix. Killfile, does everybody have to toe the line in order to be a Liberal? What about all the Democrats?

      Of everyone you could level that question against I find it amusing in the extreme that you've chosen the political party that doesn't have a purity test you have to pass to run for office

      • 11 votes
      #3.9 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:10 AM EST
      greg-709692

      chosen the political party that doesn't have a purity test you have to pass to run for office

      Maybe the Democratic Party needs to go that route.

      We are seeing what happens when Power corrupts and anybody can join the club. Do you see any difference from the last 4 years? It's getting worse!

        #3.10 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:16 AM EST
        Darkwood

        I don't think that Lord Acton was pursuant of a policy of political purity when he composed his dictum against the Catholic Church of which he among the faithful.

        We are seeing what happens when Power corrupts and anybody can join the club.

        The Republican desire to purge its ranks is much more akin to the purging done by a number of totalitarian governments throughout history. Michelle Bachman's outcry to purge the government of those not sufficiently patriotic is another example of the Republicans colonic urge to purge.

        So in spite of the outright, low-down, traitorous bought-and-paid-for actions by Lieberman he has not been cast out. Perhaps it is time to distance ourselves from this man and let him cozy up the party of coporatism.

          #3.11 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:01 AM EST
          greg-709692

          And its good the Democratic party chastizes the ones they want to keep and shame them to get a vote, no matter what they believe ?

            #3.12 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:13 AM EST
            Free Mason-1490678Deleted
            Lone Ranger-1249924

            If you play with snakes, you are going to get bitten. It's what they do. Lieberman is the lowest form of human there could be. He should be stripped of any positions of authority and made to caucus with the rats in the basement of the senate building.

            • 3 votes
            #3.14 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:52 PM EST
            Rusty007

            I think Lieberman is intentionally trying to get kicked out of the caucus so he can switch parties and claim to be the victim of a left-wing purity purge. I wouldn't do him the favor oif kicking him out. But given that he cannot be trusted, we should remove him from chairing the Homeland Security Committee for purely national security reasons.

            He's too risky and we don't know what other governments around the world he might be willing to sell to, next. I mean that, unfortunately, with complete sincerity. He seems very unstable these days.

            • 1 vote
            #3.15 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:03 PM EST
            Lone Ranger-1249924

            I don't think the Republicans want him back. He has jumped ship on them too. Too unpredictable. As it seems to stand now, Lieberman can claim this bill as his own, and when his constituents find that this reform does nothing for them and their premiums continue to rise for less care, this weasel will be history. How can one man be able to fashion any bill to his liking, and ignore his voters. The only time any legislator gives a s--t about the voters is when they are up for election. Otherwise, PAC money buys alot of favorable legislation.

            • 2 votes
            #3.16 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:43 PM EST
            Reply
            Brandon T David

            Well after being a life long democrat, the voters in Conn. (Democrats) lost their faith in Mr. Lieberman, and wanted a change. They saw the writing on the wall, that he no longer had their best interests in mind while doing his work in the Senate. He became desperate and started to pander to the right.

            Joe, Please stop caucusing with the Dems and and join the Republican party already!

            • 7 votes
            Reply#4 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:08 PM EST
            greg-709692

            The Democrats may have lost their faith in him, but the independants in Conn. didn't!

            • 4 votes
            #4.1 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:11 PM EST
            Brandon T David

            I cannot find a breakdown of results by party, but with the Republican only taking 9.6% in the 2006 election, I would take a wild guess that he received more of their votes over those voting from the middle.

            (I) J. Liebeman 49.7%

            (D) N. Lamont 39.7%

            (R) A. Schlesinger 9.6%

            • 3 votes
            #4.2 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:30 PM EST
            Mr. Bill Davis

            Joe please go to hell you gd son of a bitch!

            • 6 votes
            #4.3 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:32 PM EST
            Free Mason-1490678Deleted
            taao

            Agreed Free Mason! Lieberman has definitely earned my respect! You have to love how when Democrats lose their best and brightest, it always turns into a slamfest against the person who was actually bright enough to abandon their idiocy. Even Queen Nancy is remaining quiet these days...by the way...you guys can keep her as well, at least her quietness lately has demonstrated one thing. She understands that 2010 is coming fast and hears the bell tolling. Thank God for small favors.

              #4.5 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:34 AM EST
              Free Mason-1490678Deleted
              Reply
              politicalcenter

              Why did you link this with his presidential vote rather than decision to run against the party nominee?

              • 1 vote
              Reply#5 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:13 PM EST
              Killfile

              Because I don't fault the guy for wanting to keep his job. The party nominee was chosen by the Democratic Party of Connecticut. They certainly have the right to speak for Connecticut Democrats but not for all of Connecticut. Likewise, they also don't have the power to speak for all Democrats.. just the ones in Connecticut.

              So Joe's running against the nominee in the Senate race there, while going against the Democratic Party of Connecticut wasn't really a break with the national party... at least not one that couldn't be easily ignored.

              • 8 votes
              #5.1 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:08 PM EST
              politicalcenter

              But if his vote on health care is representative of Connecticut, you fault him for representing his state because this is a national issue?

              • 1 vote
              #5.2 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:52 AM EST
              Free Mason-1490678Deleted
              jawill11

              But if his vote on health care is representative of Connecticut,

              Connecticut voters want a public option by a 2 to 1 margin.

              • 5 votes
              #5.4 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:06 AM EST
              DerryGirl

              Plus he has now voted against the compromise that he was himself has been proposing for the past year: "Lieberman's promise of a filibuster is not merely grounded in some proposal that the Connecticut Senator finds objectionable; it's a rejection of a compromise that Lieberman himself already approved (I removed "albeit tacitly" because he did actively discuss his support of it in several public forums)......Lieberman was invited to participate in the process that led to the Medicare buy-in" - that makes him a turn-coat too.

              • 3 votes
              #5.5 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:33 PM EST
              politicalcenter

              Jawill - Is this the quote you are referring to?

              Quinnipiac poll, Connecticut voters said by a 2-to-1 margin that Lieberman’s views on the issues put him closer to Republicans than to Democrats.

              This certainly does not say what you claim it says.

                #5.6 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:55 PM EST
                jawill11

                No, I'm going by polls specifically asking Connecticut residents if they support a public option. http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1296.xml?ReleaseID=1395

                The public option question is #64. It was a bit less than 2-1 in the latest November poll, but more than 2-1 in the September poll. Regardless of my rounding, the gap between support and oppose is huge (20-30%).

                • 3 votes
                #5.7 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:01 PM EST
                Reply
                Jimanderson1978

                Time to go Joe

                • 10 votes
                Reply#6 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:25 PM EST
                Free Mason-1490678Deleted
                Reply
                bigbugy

                Joe Lieberman is a neo-con in sheeps clothing.His days surely are numbered.

                • 14 votes
                Reply#7 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:23 PM EST
                Free Mason-1490678Deleted
                fuhgetabotit

                A politcal whore, a self serving liar, a two faced @!$%#, that is Joe Lieberman...

                The miserable little man represents in every way what I hate most about politicians and the stupid games they play with peoples lives, with our lives. One day he says one thing and the next month its a whole new lie. Fuhg you Joe the liar, you nasty piece of @!$%#, you useless oblivious little bent over two bit DC whore...

                Well, while my blood is up, I think I will use a few of those minutes I have to let the son of a bitch and his staff and him know what I think of his little games..

                In Washington (202) 224-4041 Voice

                In Hartford Connecticut (860) 549-8463 Voice

                If you have the time and a stamp, because written notes carry more weight then phone calls write him here... One Constitution Plaza, 7th Floor, Hartford, CT 06103

                And here is his e-mail page...

                Call often, call several times over the next few days, let this man know how you feel about the political games he is playing with our country. You have the minutes, the voip, the unlimited plan, use it darn it!! Call in the AM, call after hours, fill that answering machine, let them feel the people. and if you are in Conn then please, your voice matters even more, call, call, call!!

                Fuhg Joe Lieberman, liar and two bit lobbiest licker for the insurance companies.

                • 9 votes
                #7.2 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:11 AM EST
                Reply
                Dave Broom

                Before I would cave in to these "I wanna to make a deal Democrats", I would say hell with the 60 vote majority rule. What ever happened to the simple majority?

                Do we require a 60% majority vote to to elect the members of congress. Do 270 out of 538 electoral votes to elect the President of the United States come out to 60%...NO So do we play games and make deals just to pacify a few. I don't believe that should have to be the case.

                So let the ones that want to derail the process, just because they can, go ahead and make their threats and tell them that no deals will be made. That either they are for or against the party, and let the voters work it out for them come next election.

                "Reconciliation isn't ideal, and it's unclear which reforms could even be considered under it. But it isn't suicidal either. Health policy passed through reconciliation will likely garner 54 or 55 votes, which doesn't exactly constitute despotic behavior in most people's minds. It's a majority. It's a bigger majority than the one that passed Bush's 2003 tax cuts, which required the vice president to step in and break a tie. And Bush still won a second term. Will reconciliation cause a furor for a few weeks? Very possibly. But it won't be the death of his presidency. Failing to pass heath-care reform at all, well, that's a different story."

                So give us the Public option, and a public option that has teeth to it, were the insurance and big Pharms companies will not be able to gouge the American people again.

                • 13 votes
                Reply#8 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:36 PM EST
                Brandon T David

                The 60 votes is the cloture rule, better known as anti-filibuster. I am quite sure there is a line of Republicans ready to filibuster.

                Reconciliation can only be used in budget matters, according to Senate rules. It takes 67 Sens to change sen rules

                • 3 votes
                Reply#9 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:01 PM EST
                Dave Broom

                If health care is not a budget matter then why do we sit around and wait for the CBO to score it....

                • 3 votes
                #9.1 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:23 PM EST
                KGMO

                Half of it is, half of it isn't. The real reform won't cost taxpayers a dime. Eliminating pre-existing conditions for example.

                • 7 votes
                #9.2 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:29 PM EST
                Dave Broom

                KGMO

                You are correct about pre-existing conditions and other tricks of the trade that the insurance companies use to deny you coverage will be eliminated. And that will not cost you anything.

                But as long as we got senators like Lieberman around, they still need to consider reconciliation as a way to bypass the 60 vote BS and get the bill passed. And the bill they pass does not need to be so watered down because of compromise that it does not live up to the expectations of the American people.

                That is why the bill in my opinion it is enough of a budget matter that reconciliation could be used. And they could get rid of the all the compromise and deals that they would have to make if they kept the 60 vote majority to get the bill passed.

                • 3 votes
                #9.3 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:40 AM EST
                jawill11

                From my understanding, they would have to split up the bill for reconciliation. The public option and other matters involving funding, such as subsidies, could go through reconciliation and pass with about 55 votes today. Other items such as anti-trust and pre-existing conditions would be a separate bill needing 60 votes. Those items needing 60 are not controversial. Some Senators might threaten to filibuster them in retaliation, but it would make them look even worse to their constituents than they already do for not supporting the wildly popular public option.

                I say split up the bill, pass it through reconciliation, force the corporate whores to show their cards and physically filibuster a law allowing sick people the right to get health coverage, and put Lieberman's chairman plaque and gavel in a cardboard box on the curb in front of the Capitol steps.

                • 7 votes
                #9.4 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:31 AM EST
                Reply
                billy-witchdoctor-com

                Wow ...being a Democrat is a tough business ...look at Joe Lieberman ...doesnt agree with what is going on and everyone on the left throws under the Bus....because he doesnt think that this healthcare option is a good plan and wow you lefties just chew him up and spit him out.....I guess they are trying to make an example of what happens if you try to think for yourself

                • 6 votes
                Reply#10 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:16 PM EST
                Patriotic Dissenter

                being a Democrat is a tough business ...look at Joe Lieberman

                Why should anyone be surprised at the dems' maltreatment of one that Caucasuses with them? The libs want to so badly pass ANY healthcare bill, no matter how crappy, and if one doesn't agree than "off with their head." I just posted that 61% of Americans oppose this healthcare bill, according to CNN. No one else has been able to tell me when in American history has a political party attempted to ram through a domestic bill that has 61% against it. The libs are willing to do anything in order to take advantage of a crisis and if that means taking down Lieberman than so be it.

                • 3 votes
                #10.1 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:27 PM EST
                Brandon T David

                Joe left us along time ago. This is not completely about health care, which has become the proverbial "straw."

                And I can name one Bill!

                Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006

                • 6 votes
                #10.2 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:54 PM EST
                Sgt. Pepper

                Wow ...being a Democrat is a tough business ...look at Joe Lieberman ...doesnt agree with what is going on and everyone on the left throws under the Bus

                At least he didn't receive death threats for it.

                • 5 votes
                #10.3 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:18 PM EST
                bonos_rama

                ".....I guess they are trying to make an example of what happens if you try to think for yourself"

                Yes, they should do what the right does and call everybody who dares to think for themselves a RINO, or a racist, like Limbaugh did to Colin Powell when HE dared think for himself.

                • 5 votes
                #10.4 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:21 PM EST
                Mr. Bill Davis

                Drink that Kool Aid dude. Lying man doesn't think for himself--he is a bought and paid for corporate whore.

                • 7 votes
                #10.5 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:34 PM EST
                billy-witchdoctor-com

                At least he didn't receive death threats for it.

                ....I wouldnt put it past the left ...they even play the death card to accuse the right of being hateful towards the President.......

                he is a bought and paid for corporate whore

                I thought that was Mary Landrieu....Maybe you lefties should have bribed Leiberman

                  #10.6 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:37 AM EST
                  Free Mason-1490678Deleted
                  Sgt. Pepper

                  ....I wouldnt put it past the left ...they even play the death card to accuse the right of being hateful towards the President......

                  So let me get this straight.

                  The Left doesn't want Liberman on the Democrat's team. Your Reaction:

                  look at Joe Lieberman ...doesnt agree with what is going on and everyone on the left throws under the Bus

                  Then I show you that a Republican is receiving death threats (from Conservatives) for voting for tax increases (ONCE). And your reaction:

                  I wouldnt put it past the left

                  Are you @!$%#ing kidding me?

                  • 7 votes
                  #10.8 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:48 AM EST
                  billy-witchdoctor-com

                  you gotta be joking right...I mean really ...this is supposed to be a mean spirited article on Joe Lieberman...and yes you throw him under the bus, want him out of your party and berate him constantly........and why because either ....

                  A. He wont take a bribe to vote for healthcare

                  B. He wants to do the right thing for his people and you disagree

                  and as the one article seeded on the vine says 1/3 Democrats less likely to vote if the public option is not passed....and I stand on what I said before.....Look at Joe Lieberman.... doesnt agree with what is going on and everyone on the left throws under the Bus..

                  http://magic3400.newsvine.com/_news/2009/12/14/3632275-poll-one-third-of-dems-less-likely-to-vote-in-2010-if-public-option-dies-

                  • 1 vote
                  #10.9 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:39 AM EST
                  Reply
                  UNCLEMIKE

                  I'll just look forward to Jon Stewart's DroopyDawg (aka Joe AdLibermann) impression tonight for a fair assessment of Joe's new sense of obstructionist power.

                  • 6 votes
                  Reply#11 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:55 PM EST
                  swamijim sez

                  This kind of internal bickering & power-struggle has always been the downfall of the Democratic Party. The Repubs have it relatively easy-- since the GOP only represents the top 1-2% of the country (where the real money is), it's much simpler to be 'on board', since they're all pandering to the same limited special-interest gruop. The Dems have been the party of the 'have nots' for 50 or 60 years (at least), which means they're always divided & the party is a fragile coalition of guys fronting for squabbling factions competing for power and influence. Lieberman happens to be the one standing in the spotlight now, but if/when he does a vanishing act, there'll be another influence-peddler/obstructionist throwing sand in the Democratic machinery. One of the few things you can rely on is for the Dems to choke in the clutch when they ought to stand together...

                  • 4 votes
                  Reply#12 - Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:37 PM EST
                  gwen-450413

                  He's not the only senator opposed though. There are other democrats who have said they will not vote for this bill. Why is he bearing the brunt? Just asking, btw, trying to get a better understanding of why he is being singled out.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#13 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:12 AM EST
                  Obamarunswithscissors

                  A few weeks ago he brought up the " expand medicare " as he did when he ran for VP and now he's saying no to it, jerking Mr. Reid and the Dems around.....

                  • 4 votes
                  #13.1 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:00 AM EST
                  UNCLEMIKE

                  Classic manipulator behavior: lead people along and then change the game. This makes everybody else look like idiots and it put the decision making power in Lieberman's hands.

                  What a dick.

                  • 5 votes
                  #13.2 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:02 PM EST
                  GG-537707

                  Folks have the ability to change their minds when they know what is proposed is going to do more harm than good.

                  • 1 vote
                  #13.3 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:05 PM EST
                  Reply
                  Moo-299581

                  Gwen

                  Because LIEberman is a lying dog. He proposed the very same policy the dems compromised on when he was running for VP. They picked this policy of expanding medicare because Lieberman had proposed it himself. They thought if they kissed his ass hard enough it would get his vote .

                  At first he said he would have to wait for the CBO numbers to know if he could support the bill. Now he says he'll filibuster it even though he hasn't seen the CBO numbers.

                  This is all about sticking to the dems as hard as he can, nothing more. And he is screwing millions out of healthcare at the same time, while taking fat checks from the insurance companies to do it.

                  The bill stinks so badly now, that I no longer care if it passes, I would rather see it fail than see it be gutted even more by trying to appease this awful, selfish, arrogant, evil man.

                  Burn in hell LIEberman! And take your insurance lobbyist wife with you.

                  • 10 votes
                  Reply#14 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:22 AM EST
                  carolg

                  Goodbye Joe, You gotta go.

                  You must be running out of parties at this point.

                  Hey but listen, there's always the insurance kick backs, right.

                  You loser..........

                  • 7 votes
                  Reply#15 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:38 AM EST
                  Rixar13

                  Lieberman's promise of a filibuster is not merely grounded in some proposal that the Connecticut Senator finds objectionable; it's a rejection of a compromise that Lieberman himself already approved, albeit tacitly.

                  Send Lieberman packing and then he can work for Pharma with his ole lady or the insurance industry.

                  • 7 votes
                  Reply#16 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:48 AM EST
                  HappyJack-1509548

                  The democrats already sent Joe packing. Now he's kicking their stupid butts. Be careful what you wish for.

                    #16.1 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:26 PM EST
                    GrayHouse

                    HappyJack, you just let everyone know that you have no idea what you're talking about.

                    • 1 vote
                    #16.2 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:20 PM EST
                    Reply
                    chorvat

                    this healthcare bill is just plain garbage, either we get proposals that simpol give the govt way too much power which i am never really a fan of or its a bill that is so weak that is actually works against the public and for the insurance companies, noone in DC uses any god damn common sense. i am all for reform but the bill that is floating around now is not what we need and the dems are just trying to get anything passed so they can cheer about it at the 2010 elections.

                    it also doesnt help that the dems and libs are infatuated with getting into arguments and fights with ultra conservatives and radio commentators. this only helps divide the country. there is a old saying about this kind of crap "dont argue with an idiot because they will bring you down and beat you with experience" and thats exactly what the conservatives have done.

                    for the dems its time to make a bill that makes sense, get your senators to read and approve it ( which aparantly has not been done in our current situation) and go out there and explain to the people in a way they can understand. for a party that prides itself on being so well educated there are very few people that know how to talk to the general public.

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#17 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:54 AM EST
                    Free Mason-1490678Deleted
                    TheIndependentThinker-711113

                    Yeah, I bet this has nothing to do with his wife's lobbying ties to Big Pharma and insurance companies. Now he is just as big of a whore as his wife. Her salary is just a legalized kickback...

                    I live in DC and there should be a law that you choose politics or lobbying, but you can't have both. It is such a blatant conflict of interest that it disgusts me.

                    • 10 votes
                    Reply#19 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:14 AM EST
                    TheyreAllCrooks

                    I have Joe Leiberman in my dead pool.....

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#20 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:42 AM EST
                    Beldapriest

                    When you stand in the way of something this big, and with this much momentum you either move or get crushed. I think the public has had enough of this pompous little grandstander.

                    • 4 votes
                    Reply#21 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:51 AM EST
                    HappyJack-1509548

                    This fiasco has very little momentum. Only the dim of wit are for it.

                      #21.1 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:48 PM EST
                      Rusty007

                      Seven presidents have tried to pass health insurance reform and seven have failed, up until now. This president will succeed. Neither he nor the presidents who preceded him in this effort are dim of wit. Indeed, they are or were all far wiser than their detractors.

                      If Lieberman filibusters, look for a few Republicans to cross over on that vote. they don't want him, either. If he's tricksy with the one who brung him, then he won't dance nicely with them, either. And there are still a few good Republican senators remaining.

                      • 3 votes
                      #21.2 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:24 PM EST
                      carolg

                      "So, when does a revolution begin so we can take our country back from corporate interests and give it back to the citizens, where it belongs?"

                      Kathleen,

                      It begins yesterday. We dump all those that the lobbyists have in their pockets and put in fresh "clean" Democrats. If we simply voted out the "bought and paid for" group or worse yet, didn't go to vote, we'd end up with the last administration again.

                      I will never sit home and let that happen and anyone that does is cutting off their nose to spite their face. No more rule by the right lunatics. The corruption and stupidity is not acceptable ever again.

                      I wasn't dumb enough to vote for the bush/cheney ticket, either time. I'm certainly not going to get stupid now.

                      • 5 votes
                      #21.3 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:39 PM EST
                      Reply
                      BelindaJoy

                      Lieberman is a joke. The only problem is he is the one laughing all the way to the bank. He is clearly playing both sides and no one seems willing or able to call him out on his game. Everyone is accepting of his crap. He reminds me of what boys in school labeled a tease. The type of girl who will say and do just enough to get what she wants, but when it comes down to the big moment.....not so fast.......

                      That is exactly what he is doing and it is sickening.

                      • 5 votes
                      Reply#22 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:19 PM EST
                      UNCLEMIKE

                      The image of Joe as a manipulative tease is a pretty horrifying image. But your comparison is valid. All politicians will do whatever the can to get everybody's attention but Joe is bordering on another kind of pathology.

                      I wonder if his disorder is covered by his health plan...........of course, he probably does't think there is anything to fix.

                      • 3 votes
                      #22.1 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:47 PM EST
                      carolg

                      "So, when does a revolution begin so we can take our country back from corporate interests and give it back to the citizens, where it belongs?"

                      Kathleen,

                      It begins yesterday. We dump all those that the lobbyists have in their pockets and put in fresh "clean" Democrats. If we simply voted out the "bought and paid for" group or worse yet, didn't go to vote, we'd end up with the last administration again.

                      I will never sit home and let that happen and anyone that does is cutting off their nose to spite their face. No more rule by the right lunatics. The corruption and stupidity is not acceptable ever again.

                      I wasn't dumb enough to vote for the bush/cheney ticket, either time. I'm certainly not going to get stupid now.

                      • 3 votes
                      #22.2 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:38 PM EST
                      carolg

                      sorry, double post by mistake.

                      • 3 votes
                      #22.3 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:51 PM EST
                      Rusty007

                      carolg, some things are worth repeating! ;)

                      • 3 votes
                      #22.4 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:21 PM EST
                      Kathleen54

                      Rusty, amen!

                      • 2 votes
                      #22.5 - Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:06 PM EST
                      Reply
                      orange-756308

                      Joe Lieberman is a crazy, sad man who sold his soul to insurance companies. He is the poster child of everything that is wrong with corporate lobbying

                      • 6 votes
                      Reply#23 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:41 PM EST
                      String Being

                      Joe need not fear... he will be reelected as many times as he wishes... as will all congressmen.

                      If you hear a sound in the breeze, it is a collective rasberry from your legislators. They have figured out how to be reelected time after time, regardless of what you might think of them. Get on google and look at the figures. The only way they go is by sexual scandal, being arrested or death. (non sexual scandal and elections have no effect)

                      It's terrifying to think that the party you don't like has this power.. but you can be comforted to know that your party also need never fear voters, or worry about them at all.

                      Isn't that grand?

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#24 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:24 PM EST
                      HappyJack-1509548

                      This is hilarious! The demwitted dems threw Lieberman out of their party, and now he's kicking their arroogant butts. They say pay back is hell.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#25 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:44 PM EST
                      Free Mason-1490678Deleted
                      Reply
                      Team Madoff

                      All loyal Christian Americans will be better when Judas Joe and Hadassah depart for foreign shores for good and forever.

                      Pardon Jonathan Pollard not Bobby Toussi!

                        Reply#26 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:51 PM EST
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