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It got a brief mention on some of the cable channels, but the only major TV network that carried live coverage of this healthcare reform rally in D.C. yesterday was Fox - and then, only to ridicule it:
The reason? AHIP, the health insurance lobbying organization, was meeting in (where else?) the Ritz-Carlton. A coalition of groups led by unions including SEIU, AFSCME, UFCW and Health Care for American Now declared the meeting site a "corporate crime scene" and attempted to make a citizens' arrest:
10,000 Turn Out In DC To Protest Insurance Co. Profits; Network News Ignores Them
Seeded on Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:12 AM EST
Article Source: Crooks and Liars- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (211)
Admittedly the TEA Party protest on September 12 was significantly larger so one would expect to see more coverage of it. That said the coverage was disproportionately large. 10,000 people turn up in DC and there's not a peep while the teabaggers get nearly wall to wall coverage?
Liberal media my foot.
- 70 votes
agreed, and I think digby made the point that the 'liberal media' only covers things where Hitler and Stalin are on placards.
- 28 votes
Wonder of this number, how many was Union thugs bought and paid for ?
- 10 votes
macattackk,
All of them. The Democratic Party and our so-called leaders are DISGUSTING. They have used EVERY foul tool to take control of twenty percent of our economy.
How so?
Show me how 20% of the economy has been taken over since Obama's inauguration?
Post a link, prove it, I want to see it.
- 41 votes
macattackk is not a patriot or an American. I know it is true because I said it.
- 35 votes
if the unions can make a citizens arrest on the insurance companies can i make a citizens arrest on the unions? after all, they are technically stealing from me by exempting themselves from paying taxes on heath insurance if the current bill passes.
- 9 votes
I'm going to guess that macattackk lets a lot of things escape from his face without due diligence regarding facts.
- 25 votes
I think what macattack is getting at is that the Dems "Want to control" 20% of our economy through control of the health care system. Health Care is estimated at 17% of our GDP. He was rounding the 17% to 20%.....
(I provided a credible link as to the percentage-the control issue is certainly debatable, but I am of the same mindset of mackattackk on that one)
- 10 votes
It has also been my belief that the "Main Stream Media" only covers the Tea Party rallies to ridicule as well.
- 13 votes
Maybe, Brent. But it wouldn't really be in the control of Democrats, per se. It would be in control of Congress, and whoever the ruling party of the day is. macattackk is just being partisan about it.
- 19 votes
George, people like mackattack and I (and the Republicans in the House and Senate) don't want the government trying to run health care regardless of which party is in power. We (and I think macattackk would agree) want to try a free market remedie before turning your health care system into the DMV.
The issue is as partisan as I have seen in my 43 years George, wouldn't you agree? I mean, seriously, do you actually comprehend the bill? Or do you just like the idea of the government controlling health care? Even Democrat Chuck Schumer thinks it's a bad idea.
- 10 votes
Comment collapsed by the communitymacattack & brent,
since 1993/94, we have been trying the "private market". Healthcare has gone from 8% of the GDP to 17%.
How has the private market helped in the last 16 years?
Isn't it time to try the public option?
- 39 votes
I think insurance companies are the cause of rising health care cost and unless they are factored out of the equation there will never be real reform.
- 26 votes
gerbil, we have not been trying the free market-we need to open up competition and remove the insurance industry's anti-trust exemption (allows them to colaborate rather than compete) that has been in place since just after WWII. The house voted to remove the anti-trust exemption from the insurance industry 2 weeks ago.
Lets let the senate and President Obama approve the bill and see what competition does to health care costs BEFORE we turn it over to the Government. I promise you that if American free-market competition doesn't reduce costs and improve services, I will be on your side on the issue in six months.
Lisafrequency, auto insurance became mandatory in the '70s and because the companies are forced to compete, its not an issue. Let's try the free market first.
Motherknowsbest, speaking of comprehension, why would Dems pass a bill requiring everyone buy private insurance if they are not owned by the insurance companies as well?
- 7 votes
This is not a new problem but it really hit me hard during the build up to Iraq. The media was nothing more than a cheerleader for Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld instead of actually asking hard questions about such things as WMD, how we're going to pay for it, and especially how many lives were they willing to sacrifice for more oil. That said, my favorite more recent media moment occurred right after Michael Jackson died. CNN did a report on how the Obama administration wasn't getting out their health care reform message. They didn't say anything about his reform package but just said that he wasn't getting the message out. Then they put out this teaser before going to commercial. "Where is Michael Jackson's monkey; after the break, an exclusive interview with Bubbles." I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!!!
What we need to be doing instead of arguing with dingbat right wingers is writing to the media to tell them how we feel about their asinine choices of what is covered.
- 16 votes
I saw the coverage on CBS and it was touted as democracy in action. The article is inaccurate.
- 5 votes
The problem is the word takeover. Not that health care is or isn't 20% of the economy. This isn't a @!$%#ing takeover and until the ignorant among us realize that, they are basing their entire argument on one lie after the other. That's what happens when your only source for news is Glenn Beck and the demagogues over at Fox News.
- 13 votes
Link to the coverage
http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2010/20100310094406.aspx
- 3 votes
The reason protests like this don't, get network coverage is because it was a calm, nonthreatening, no carrying guns, no shouting down of speakers, in other words no drama. If you remember the town hall meetings after Obama was sworn in as president, the first break in both houses, only the meetings with screaming, got on t.v.. When they asked the networks why their calm meetings were not covered, the networks said, people want to see drama and arguing, your meetings won't get us any ratings. So that is the reason, networks don't cover calm meetings, with reckless disregard of truth and people getting their message out, because of drama and ratings
- 16 votes
Are any of you concerned that this one industry is 17-20% of the economy to begin with? That is the problem whiners. What are ya gonna do when it's 30%, 50%, and so on if something is not done? It is a shame to allow one industry to have the American people and economy by the short hairs.
- 14 votes
Well, if 17% of our budget spent on healthcare means that we are socialistic, the 20% of our budget spent on the military must then mean we are also a military dictatorship.
- 17 votes
Martin - you hav ehit the nail on the head; this was factchecked and factchecked over and over
A takeover is when the government takes over the hospitals, doctors, insurance companies - that is not going to happen so anyone claiming this is a takeover is a L I A R, an Idiot or a Fool (choose one or more as appropriate).
At best this is regulatory reform
- 16 votes
Same thing happened with the Muslim gathering.
What Muslim gathering?
- 1 vote
10,000 people don't matter to FOX??? or any of the other stations???
I will say it again.... I do not believe that 85% of the United States are satisfied with their health care providers.
I don't believe it.
It does not add up.
Look at all the unemployed and under employed.
We are being lied to.
- 8 votes
CNN did cover the event. I remember seeing it on TV as it was happening. Here are just a few links to some of the footage shown by CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/03/10/am.acosta.health.protests.cnn?iref=allsearch
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/03/09/nat.healthcare.protests.cnn?iref=allsearch
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/03/09/acosta.bpr.healthcare.protests.cnn?iref=allsearch
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/03/09/natpkg.healthcare.protest.cnn?iref=allsearch
- 2 votes
Touching on the groups that showed in DC. Their combined track records are ones of blood sucking leaches that attach themselves to producing organizations for the purpose of taking money or power from them and giving that self same power either to themselves or groups of people with little or no vested interest in that producing organization.
Now that was not always the case. But self serving seems to be the order of the day. Those who are critical of government, or of business, ie; wall street, bankers, etc' need to add these aforementioned groups as well. Those in the article are self serving to the point they try to destroy business to achieve their ends. No one should be exempt from your distain. If you do exclude these groups then please excuse yourself from the equation. You are not being honest. You exclude facts to suit your argument. That is not the way it is supposed to work.
Since some of those groups are questionable, I think that may be why no media showed up. Hands dirty and all that. Fox is right to focus on them but they are wrong to take the laughing aspect of their meeting. They should be focusing on why these groups are not to be followed, not given such a soapbox. Belittling just intensifies the need to prove themselves.
We have our work cut out for us, Folks. Nothing Washington is doing is right. In fact, it is unConstitutional. We are just so used to what they preach we are not hearing what the bottom line contains. And even we should be looking at the bottom line. That is how business' survive and thrive and we are supposed to be our own guardian. We need to check our own bottom line.
The current admin. is simply intensifying the disenfranchised of the American public, by eroding the rights we have enjoyed through the Constitution. My bottom line is linked to government because they have intruded on my rights, on your rights. I want a bottom line in the black, not the red and government taking, to give it back to me, after a small fee, is not right. I do not need them to help me spend my money. If they give me back what they have taken, I could help myself. Couldn't you?
Some will not agree with me. That is ok as long as you consider what I have said when you do your own research. I have not exagerated, nor am I lying. You know that. But consider all aspects and then speak out. Or don't speak at all.
- 1 vote
I've posted on this site before, but let me repeat; Beware the "Corporate Media". It is not what you may think.
My personal opinion is they are but another failed foundation of our society.Remedy, go directly to them and encourage them to EARN their BILL OF RIGHTS PROTECTIONS! According to the Founders, The Press was given special protection to assist the PEPEOLE in protecting against TYRANNY. And please don't believe me. Look it up yourself!!!
They absolutely have flipped that script.
- 5 votes
CCArm & gonetosoon
Nice catch. Notice how quickly killfile is to acknowledge the errors of his ways. NOT! And notice how few votes your truthful, FACTUAL posts got compared to the baseless blather of his liberal minions. It truly is evidence that the Sweet Fennel of the Vine is overrun by Poison Liberal Ivy. They try to baffle us with bull@!$%#, but we fluster them with FACTS. ;~)
- 3 votes
bigboyjExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community
Wonder of this number, how many was Union thugs bought and paid for ?
it's funny , your nic suggests your insecure . kinda like the old saying those that talk about sex alot usually aren't getting any.
or is that your mom's nic for you ?
seriously.
- 4 votes
gerbil, we have not been trying the free market-we need to open up competition and remove the insurance industry's anti-trust exemption (allows them to colaborate rather than compete) that has been in place since just after WWII. The house voted to remove the anti-trust exemption from the insurance industry 2 weeks ago.
Oh God! Another Republican tiger pit.
Just what we need--Clear Channel and iTunes versions of health care.
When will you people give up this farce about free markets when it comes to health, highways, homeland security, etc.??
Oh wait; only the complete loons advocate privatizing the military. The rest just want to privatize the prisons.
- 10 votes
CNN showed the protest. FOX News showed the protest. BBC America showed the protest. So some of the media covered the event and even showed several different pieces with the union leaders preaching about how they need this and they need that and the mean old insurance companies are the real enemy..... of course the unions are now all upset that their plans might actually get taxed with the health care reform bill. The media is no longer a "news worthy" outlets as much as it is the specific ideals that the producers feel that the American public needs to adhere too.
I'm sure the MSM did an extensive report on the latest beautiful murdered young white girl, though
or maybe we saw a lab licking kittens, or maybe Ernest Borgneine was gettting an interview telling us how he has lived so long by masterbating every day
- 2 votes
I note that a lot of you are pointing out that the headline is wrong because FOX, CNN, etc covered the protests.
Two thoughts on that:
1 - Not my headline. Take it up with the source publication.
2 - I always thought Network News meant broadcast only - ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX etc. Are we counting cable in with Network News now?
- 9 votes
I pretty much given up on the major 3 US news media outlets actually reporting news. Most news agencies rarely report the full story just a 30 second blip with limited information. So you are correct, I didn't see any coverage of the protest on the major 3.
- 3 votes
When will you people give up this farce
kudos
Middlemen do not hold down prices or add value to a product, they skim profits and freeload.
The media operates in the same context to protect their interests .
- 2 votes
Its sad that some of my fellow Americans are soooooooo DESPERATE.
macattackk banned, rereg of expanded-foster/dfizzz/beaaazer.
- 11 votes
It so amazes me that the easily led and lemmings of the GreedyObstructionistPanderers of the Special Interests, (BOTH left and right)continue to say; "let the market make adjustments," especially AFTER the stock market and housing market making THEIR adjustments and pulling the World's economy into the @!$%#ter. Do they really THINK that allowing the insurance free reign will keep them from increasing rates? These are people who consider themselves SMART???! DON'T THINK SO!
They say they don't want the government to get involved in healthcare. Personally I would PREFER regulation to ownership but don't SEE that happening. BUT I certainly don't endorse continuing to allow the industry to increase profits at the expense of those in need of the care they deny! Allowing the insurance industry to deny coverage of care THEY deem unnecessary or too cost prohibitive when it is needed by the patient and the DR ordered! That's OK with them. Just goes to show how delusional, demented and heartless those who oppose health care reform REAALY ARE!
- 4 votes
Kim, the health insurance industry has an anti-trust exemption. Do you understand what that means? They are not in a free market dear.....
- 3 votes
killfile you're in denial.(hey that rhymes) See the link in CCArm's post #1.26 . And I don't think its the Title that we mind so much, as the fact that you chose to seed and stand behind the article as legit.
They are not in a free market dear.....
A truly "free market" wouldn't have anti-trust laws. So actually, insurance companies operate in one of the most free markets.
Not working so well for the 625 people a day who lost their coverage last year.
- 5 votes
killfile you're in denial.(hey that rhymes) See the link in CCArm's post #1.26 . And I don't think its the Title that we mind so much, as the fact that you chose to seed and stand behind the article as legit.
The link in 1.26 certainly does contradict the article in question. I'm not sure how much coverage the protest actually got but I'd agree with you that the hyperbole about the networks "ignoring" them is just that - hyperbole.
I've certainly no problem with anyone providing links or evidence that a story I've seeded is false. That's part of social news - vetting what's out there.
- 2 votes
What Muslim gathering?
Sorry Pastafarian, just saw your question.
- 1 vote
Brent:
I think what macattack is getting at is that the Dems "Want to control" 20% of our economy through control of the health care system. Health Care is estimated at 17% of our GDP. He was rounding the 17% to 20%.....
(I provided a credible link as to the percentage-the control issue is certainly debatable, but I am of the same mindset of mackattackk on that one)
As I wrote on another thread, health care reform, as proposed, is not a "government takeover". But it should be. The mere fact that the US Health Care System, which statistically is one of the worst in the world, actually accounts for a sixth of the "economy" and more than half of the bankruptcies, cries out for a takeover -- and the sooner the better.
- 4 votes
So, folks are upset that the insurance industry has a 3% profit margin ? Doesn't seem like much to me.
Brent,
Wouldn't anti-trust laws be regulation. Enacting them would therefore be messing with the free market. I see your point though, by not having them enforce then the heads of the insurance companies can talk to one another and adjust prices among themselves, so still no free market. Doesn't seem like any way you splice it there's a free market.
- 2 votes
Everyone rambles about this so called, incorrectly described, "government takeover of health care - 17.3% of the economy". I wonder why no one is concerned about the insurance takeover of health care - that an uncontrolled monopoly has it's tentacles into 12.7% of the American economy (17.3%-(27%*17.3)=12.7% because 27% have Medicare, Medicaid, DOD and DVA health care, not insurance run health care). The insurance takeover of health care is far more troubling than any government involvement.
- 2 votes
Killfile,
My post about the article being inaccurate had no challenge for you to prove otherwise ;-)
I knew it was inaccurate for I had watched the coverage on CBS (I never miss Katie)
Several of the posters noted that those who disagree with the direction of the healthcare debate use Glen Beck and et al.
I suggest these people read the Declaration and use it as their source of information. They might well change their socialist minds, excuse me; their very leftist liberal meanderings.
That is the barometer I recommend. It is the only one that counts.
Which part of the Declaration of Independence goes against health care reform, Judi?
- 1 vote
That is the barometer I recommend. It is the only one that counts
For those of you who who line up behind propaganda and fallacy I suggest you read the two books listed below or veiw these two videos in there entirety , That is if you can stomach the truth.
maybe then you'll realize where some of us are coming from. If you CAN"T read the books or view the videos in their entirety in obvious you cannot stomach facts and are easy marks for the con-men and hit men yourselves .
- 2 votes
G Bud
I like Cashill, intersting.
What about Cloward and Piven, more people should know about them and the SDS.
The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact. Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity, every crack in the common front against fascism.
Henry A. Wallace
- 1 vote
George M. It goes against the 5th, 9th and 10th amendments. So read, my son, read and learn.
The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information.
Henry A. Wallace
If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States.
Henry A. Wallace
boons arama, what you have failed to understand is that the Constitution designates Congress to fund the millitary.That is the job as given to Congress by that same Constitution. It is spelled out for you. What you are advocating is not in the Constitution. Those things not designated in the Constitution belongs to the states. What is so hard for you to understand. It is in plain English, plain english. Read it.
Nothing in the Constitution allows the Congress to get involved into the personal aspects of the average American. Your desire to insert them into our lives is not well served. Please rethink your entire position. It is imperative that government get out of our lives, as much as possible, not intrude further. It is mind boggling that you refuse to even read those statements in the Constitution. They could not be more plainly written. No double entendre, no government speak, just plain English.
Judi,
Wrong:
nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Universal healthcare does not deprive anyone of life, liberty, or prosperity. It actually is more likely to enhance it. And there is due process of law. See, the bill will be ratified and signed into law. Private property for public use, without just compensation - um, hello, there will be just compensation = healthcare for all.
The 9th Amendment simply states "Our rights are not yet known." it can be applied to just about anything like the right to an abortion, to assisted suicide. Anything really. invoking it here is vague.
And the 10th:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Very true. But not in the angle that you would expect. States Rights are not entirely applicable as health insurance companies offer services across state lines and are therefore more aptly regulated by the Federal Government. Also, this is an issue dealing with the General Welfare, which does fall under the responsibility of Congress granted by the Constitution. Furthermore, as a major party platform of the 2008 election, the people have decided by popular and electoral college votes that the platform was important to them.
And I am not your son.
- 3 votes
Everybody is my son and I am everyone's Mom. Caring for everyone is part of being a human being. You are everyone's Father, too. Be responsible and help prepare others for what is coming. Whatever it is.
If you bothered reading the darn bill you would change your tune. Until then, I am through talking with you. You are talking through your hat.
As for the people who elected this young liberal leftist, they got more than they bargained for and are now fighting what they see as a sellout.
The reason insurance companies work this way is because Congress intervened and made the mess we now have. What the heck makes you think they can fix it by taking more and forcing me and others to accept their way or the highwaY? That is illogical and ignorant. Sorry but you are dead wrong.
And just to be clear, supplying people who have not paid, as in illegals, and others, does not seem fair compensation to me. It does it I am a socialist, which I am not, because they do not know better. I am an American, I do know better. And I will fight this as far as I can.
I just walked you through the amendments you quoted, refuted them, and you tell me I didn't read them. Did you even read my post?
supplying people who have not paid, as in illegals, and others, does not seem fair compensation to me.
Ugh:
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
So then you agree, based on the House version that you would thereby be receiving compensation, and that it is therefor, constitutional?
- 1 vote
WOW,,,, In the beginning nobody wanted to recognize the tea party, they were non existent to the media and now the cries that a left wing rally didn't get reported, my heart bleeds for you , reap what you have sown.
now the cries that a left wing rally didn't get reported
Point of clarification? Are you referring to the rally that is the subject of this seed, and if so, why do you call it a "left wing rally?"
- 1 vote
This country is beginning to look like a "failed experiment."
Thanks Republicons.
- 4 votes
Not surprising considering that much of mainstream media also is corporate.
It is not that surprising, from the verbage coming from the media, you can tell that they are coveniently enjoying picking and choosing what they think is the most imporatant news story of the day. "Hey, a celebrity died today, let's just go with that story, americans eat this stuff up."
- 20 votes
#2 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:54 AM ESTalso you might want to note how many insurance companies advertise on the different news shows....
- 9 votes
let's just go with that story, americans eat this stuff up."
And it's true. We're too busy watching reality shows and worrying about Brad and Angelina to pay attention to what's going on. Believe me, that's exactly how the powers that be want it.
- 8 votes
During the kkkampaign last fall 2 Dem leaders were assassinated and the MSM gave it about 2 seconds of airtime in favor of movie star masterbation habits, etc.
Wolf Blitzer said they didn't want to incite people to "copycat" but now the reichwingers are inciting the hell out of the paranoid fascist ignoramouses of the US to fly planes into government buildings, etc.
- 5 votes
vlad, you have pointed out something that has been mentioned on several other sites. Media types focus on inoccuous items to post on the news. Whether it is Paris Hilton, the latest sighting of Brittany Spears or who is screwing who.
We cannot get information about who was elected to school boards, who is selling secrets and who is in bed with the opposition as opposed to the "other" woman.
Points of significance are totally ignored. We have become mezmerized by poppycock instead of real and significant news. Our brains must be mush by now. I do not see that we have any clout to change this status quo. Any ideas?
This is madness, they are not listening to the public. Posting things in this forum isn't really going to help, go to this site and sign the Declaration of Health Care Independence. It was started by Michelle Bachmann and its something she brought up on the floor of the House last night (I was watching C-Span and she mentioned it, that is how I found out about it). Sign the Declaration and get everyone you know to sign it, and the next time she has the floor she can site the fact the X many Americans don't want the Federal Government to take over our health care. You signing this Declaration means you will finally get to voice your opinion on this TERRIBLE Bill to Congress (God knows my Rep. Carol Shea-Porter won't voice my opinion!!)
- 4 votes
God knows my Rep. Carol Shea-Porter won't voice my opinion!!
well, I will "thank god" for that.
- 7 votes
Hey ' pit_boss, if you know so much, how 'bout answering a few questions:
- Why are we the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have universal health care? How do we claim a higher moral standing than others when we find it acceptable to make a profit on the misery and illnesses of our citizens when all other nations believe it is morally reprehensible to treat their people that way?
- Why do 35-40 other industrialized countries recognize that a healthy, productive workforce through universal health care makes them more competitive in a global marketplace? Why are we the only one that doesn’t?
- Why are we the only nation in the world that allows insurance companies to deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions?
- Why are we are spending 50% more of our GDP on health care costs than any other nation? The average annual costs for countries with universal health care is 10% of GDP. France, with the best health care in the world, pays just 11% of their GDP versus our 16% of GDP. Why are health care costs in countries with universal coverage half of what our costs are (two of forty countries are slightly over half of our costs)?
- Why do we rank 37th in overall quality of care and 72nd in overall health of 191 countries evaluated? The facts are that virtually every nation with universal care spends far less on their health care than we do with far better results.
- Why, if Republicans are worried about deficits, did they pass the Medicare drug bill without a means to pay for it? President Obama has said that health care reform will be budget neutral and has reinstated PayGo requirements for congress. (PayGo = all new expenditures must be balanced by reductions elsewhere or paid for by new revenues).
C'mon, show me that you know a little about what you are talking about and are not as dumb as Bachmann.
- 18 votes
Hi Ron,
Here are your answers, but you really need to take your emotion out of this:
1 & 2: The Constitution of the United States of America is the reason. That is what separates us from every other nation and what makes us the Greatest Nation on earth. The United States of America is made up of 50 separate states and commonwealths, and only those States not the Federal Government have the right to MANDATE something like health care on its citizens. If a state such as Massachusetts wants to mandate health care on its citizens, that is constitutional, if the federal government wants to.....not so constitutional and will be challenged in court if passed.
3: Let me give you a simple explanation of insurance: Party A agrees to pay Party B premiums and Party B agrees to pay a claim if Party A has an UNFORSEEN even. The key to insurance is the UNFORSEEN part, you cannot insure something with a 100% chance of claim because the premiums will need to be the amount of the claim. Take auto insurance, say you are driving around without insurance and then somebody hits you, do you now get to call GEICO and expect them to cover you for the damage that you already have? The answer is no, because your premiums would have to cover your claim. There is only one "Company" that could do that and stay in business for a little while, and the is the Federal Government because they will just tax or print more money! For anyone who actually understands insurance knows you cannot insure Pre-existing conditions without causing premiums to SKYROCKET for everyone else.
4 and 5: I'm not going to debate the quality of care in the US with other countries, I think it is number 1, you don't, fine we agree to disagree. The reason we pay so much on healthcare is because of the costs and Medicare. Should it cost over $1,200 for an ambulance ride for about 5 miles? That is the cost, and insurance and government (medicare) pays it. You want to lower costs, look into things like this and why they charge so much and costs will come down. Its not Insurance companies profits like Hussein wants you to believe, I've already wasted enough time on your questions and I'm not going to link an example, but there are many other industries with higher profit margins than health insurance, is Hussein going to go after them next?
6: I'm not going to debate Reb's vs Dem's because it is stupid question, they both run up huge deficits and don't bring up pay go because the Dems already broke it. (their definition of emergency is the same as bill clintons definition of is)
You questions are pretty elementary and simpleminded, I don't think you should be casting dumb rocks at Ms. Bachmann
- 7 votes
Michelle Bachman doesn't need "dumb rocks" thrown at her - she eats "dumb rocks" for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
- 11 votes
These are the words from the mouth of the speaker of the house, a woman named Nancy Pelosi a Democrat, you may know who she is. You find me a sound clip of Michelle Bachmann saying something as stupid as this and I'll have to agree that she is dumb, if not, you should stop spreading lies about her. Please, defend Pelosi!!! She is the Speaker of the House, 3rd in line to the Presidency saying something as moronic as this!!
- 3 votes
Actually for you Bachmann haters, here is something even better than Pelosi describing a bill to take over 1/6 of the US economy is like a Cracker Jack box and you have pass it (open the box) to see whats in it (the prize).
Here is the genius of them all (without a teleprompter) explaining his knowledge of the US. Find me something Bachmann has said that is dumber than this.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws
GWB never said anything as DUMB as this and I agree W wasn't that bright!!!
- 2 votes
All the Bachman crazy train you could ever want conveniently located on one site with videos.
- 10 votes
Pittboss, are you concerned that health care comprises 1/6th of the US economy and is projected to only get larger? I am concerned with that. I agree with you that we have several of the best health care facilities in the world. Why is that?
- 7 votes
TRM,
I looked at what you linked, you may think what she said is crazy, but just because you do not agree with it, doesn't make her wrong. Do I agree with what she said about Pedophiles, no, but just because I don't agree with her that doesn't make her wrong.
What I posted were Pelosi and the President saying things that are just plain dumb, so dumb, you can't defend what they said.
Why are liberals so scared of Conservative Women? If Carol Shea-Porter, Hillary, or Pelosi were Conservatives, you would be calling them dumb. Why are you so SCARED of them?
- 1 vote
Bachman rocks! She's the Anti-Pelosi......
And I'm with Ron-we don't have Universal Care becasue we're the US, not the USSR. We allow our regulated free market to handle most of our issues.
- 3 votes
Hi Lola,
It is 1/6th and I think some of that has to do with the Top Notch Care. As I said earlier costs have a lot to do with it, $1,200 for an ambulance ride for 5 miles, that is a little high, no? And probably billions in Medicare fraud, something that we do not need the Senate Reform bill to stop, and should be stopped today, not tomorrow or March 18th, today. If the Fed could prove that they can get Medicare under control, I'd have a little faith in them, but they've had almost 50 years to get it right and they haven't! Its not Health Insurance company profits, that is for sure!!
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/23/barack-obama/health-insurance-company-turned-profit-not-rec/
These profits are tiny!!! There is more Medicare Fraud than health insurance company profits.
What are your thoughts.
- 2 votes
Re-education camps? Don't answer your census? She's pro-life but wants the government to keep their hands off her body? An endless collection of crazy if I ever saw one. That Bachmann? LMAO This woman is priceless. Bachmann even earned the title of wingnut of the year. No easy feat there. Scared of her? Hardly, she is a laugh a minute.
- 15 votes
trm,
You still haven't defended Pelosi and what she said, and she is 3rd in charge of this country.
- 2 votes
hey TRM or even CCARM,
How about the Great Liberal Congresswoman Diane Watson, will you defend her too?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_rIgbwinZNI&v=_rIgbwinZNI&gl=CA
You liberals will try to chop down any Conservative woman, yet let liberal woman say anything they want!! This woman is a Congresswoman, she is one of the problems with America today!!!
- 2 votes
trm..... that is all you came up with??? I thought you said she was a joke, now you are saying she is a problem?? which is is???? are you a Castro supporter too? I suppose you support passing Historic legilation without reading the bill? Do you also agree that there are 57 states??? You Libs are priceless!!
PALIN/BACHMANN 2016..... two strong minded SUCCESSFUL women, every libs worst nightmare!!!
- 2 votes
the_pitboss~~That statement just made me throw up a little. Dumb/Dumber 2016
- 6 votes
So when someone doesn't agree with the Radical Right, they are called Castro supporters, Socialist Liberals, Communists.
Typical and despicable.
Who says Senator McCarthy is dead...
- 7 votes
Bachman is not only a problem, she is a nut job. Do you feel better now?
Who says Senator McCarthy is dead...
He was reincarnated as Bachmann.
- 11 votes
We need another McCarthy, to weed you Reds out. I could only hope Bachmann would do for this country what the great Joseph McCarthy did!!
George, did you even listen to what Watson said?? Are you too ignorant to realize this woman is a socialist. You all know what socialists are, they are communists without guns.
- 1 vote
TRM,
Communism is unconstitutional for many reasons, but first and foremost, the central planning aspect. The United States is a Federal Republic, do a little research on what that means, and not wikipedia. To get back to your question about entitlement to an opinion, citizens, yes, congresswomen, no- not if those opinions are against the law of the land, the Constitution. She should be charged with Treason, she broke her oath to uphold the Constitution.
When did it become hip to be a Communist?? Something must be done!!!
- 1 vote
Pit boss, If you like Bachman, great. Palin? fine.
when you put the two together on a ticket, then I have a problem with your line of thinking....but it would be a nice present for the dems ;)
and oh, #4.3, RE: 1&2
we have federal laws, there is NOTHING in the constitution that would prohibit healthcare reform. Our president is a constitutional scholar, I think I trust his judgement over yours.
- 8 votes
CCARM,
That is why put them on the 2016 ticket! It was kinda a joke!
Do you even know what the Senate Health Care "Reform" is? Do you know that 30 states are already passing laws to oppose it because it is Unconstitutional? Our president is a slick speaker, just don't beleive everything he says!
I would never sit in a church that Rev. Wright preached in, the Pres did, do you trust that judgement over mine? Please watch both clips, the one of our president PRAISING Wright, then the one of Wright "Praising" America! Some Judgement!!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh7xMhsLnac&rl=yes&hl=en&gl=CA&client=mv-google
http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnH5ixmT83JE&v=nH5ixmT83JE&gl=CA
How do you defend that?????
- 1 vote
It's not hip to be a communist. We are just getting tired of the corporate fascists.
- 8 votes
pitboss,
If people judged me by the churches I have attended, and the preachers I have listened to in this lifetime of mine, then they would be misinformed. Besides, that is very old news. Wright has been pushed aside.
30 states eh? come on, prove that one to me. Oh, and yes, I am very educated on the current bill. It's not enough, but it's a start.
- 4 votes
trm, when did Bachman say she believes int he reeducation camps? If you can prove that to me, I will officially remove her from my Christmas list....
- 2 votes
when did Bachman say she believes int he reeducation camps?
Really? Huh. Maybe you are just starting to realize...
- 4 votes
Dear 'pit_boss,
I asked you six simple but pertinent questions and you did everything under the sun to avoid answering them with honest answers based on facts. Shall we review the questions and your answers.
1. Why are we the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have universal health care? How do we claim a higher moral standing than others when we find it acceptable to make a profit on the misery and illnesses of our citizens when all other nations believe it is morally reprehensible to treat their people that way?
2. Why do 35-40 other industrialized countries recognize that a healthy, productive workforce through universal health care makes them more competitive in a global marketplace? Why are we the only one that doesn’t?
Your answer to 1 & 2: The Constitution of the United States of America is the reason. That is what separates us from every other nation and what makes us the Greatest Nation on earth. The United States of America is made up of 50 separate states and commonwealths, and only those States not the Federal Government have the right to MANDATE something like health care on its citizens. If a state such as Massachusetts wants to mandate health care on its citizens, that is constitutional, if the federal government wants to.....not so constitutional and will be challenged in court if passed.
This is your interpretation of our Constitution but that is not what the questions were about. So I'll rephrase them for you. Why are so many other countries smart enough and moral enough to recognize the need for universal health care and we are not? Why do so many other countries recognize the need to have a healthy (and educated) workforce to be competitive in the global marketplace and we don't?
3. Why are we the only nation in the world that allows insurance companies to deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions?
Your answer to 3: Let me give you a simple explanation of insurance: Party A agrees to pay Party B premiums and Party B agrees to pay a claim if Party A has an UNFORSEEN even. The key to insurance is the UNFORSEEN part, you cannot insure something with a 100% chance of claim because the premiums will need to be the amount of the claim. Take auto insurance, say you are driving around without insurance and then somebody hits you, do you now get to call GEICO and expect them to cover you for the damage that you already have? The answer is no, because your premiums would have to cover your claim. There is only one "Company" that could do that and stay in business for a little while, and the is the Federal Government because they will just tax or print more money! For anyone who actually understands insurance knows you cannot insure Pre-existing conditions without causing premiums to SKYROCKET for everyone else.
I wasn't asking for an explanation of how insurance works, believe me I know that. I was asking why we as an intelligent moral society believe it is OK to deny care to anyone because of pre-existing conditions?
4. Why are we are spending 50% more of our GDP on health care costs than any other nation? The average annual costs for countries with universal health care is 10% of GDP. France, with the best health care in the world, pays just 11% of their GDP versus our 16% of GDP. Why are health care costs in countries with universal coverage half of what our costs are (two of forty countries are slightly over half of our costs)?
5. Why do we rank 37th in overall quality of care and 72nd in overall health of 191 countries evaluated? The facts are that virtually every nation with universal care spends far less on their health care than we do with far better results.
Your answer to 4 and 5: I'm not going to debate the quality of care in the US with other countries, I think it is number 1, you don't, fine we agree to disagree. The reason we pay so much on healthcare is because of the costs and Medicare. Should it cost over $1,200 for an ambulance ride for about 5 miles? That is the cost, and insurance and government (medicare) pays it. You want to lower costs, look into things like this and why they charge so much and costs will come down. Its not Insurance companies profits like Hussein wants you to believe, I've already wasted enough time on your questions and I'm not going to link an example, but there are many other industries with higher profit margins than health insurance, is Hussein going to go after them next?
You should have Googled my questions before you answered 4 and 5 because then you would have known that I have facts supporting my questions while you have only you own speculation. "You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts." (James R. Schlesinger, 1973). Actually, you didn't even attempt to answer the questions honestly but tried to misdirect the topic.
We do not have the best health care system and we do not have the best outcomes. . . and we surely don't do it for less. Our system from top to bottom, front to back, is far more costly than any other system in the world. Again, take a little time to educate yourself before you attempt to answer the questions.
6. Why, if Republicans are worried about deficits, did they pass the Medicare drug bill without a means to pay for it? President Obama has said that health care reform will be budget neutral and has reinstated PayGo requirements for congress. (PayGo = all new expenditures must be balanced by reductions elsewhere or paid for by new revenues).
Your answer to 6: I'm not going to debate Reb's vs Dem's because it is stupid question, they both run up huge deficits and don't bring up pay go because the Dems already broke it. (their definition of emergency is the same as bill clintons definition of is)
The Republicans have run up far more deficits than the Democrats since Reagan implemented his tax cuts and trickle down economics. Just check the debt clock over the years for proof.
Your comment - You questions are pretty elementary and simpleminded, I don't think you should be casting dumb rocks at Ms. Bachmann
I made my questions as elementary and simple as possible in hopes that I would get good answers. Apparently they weren't elementary and simple enough.
As for Bachmann. . . Puhleez, she works hard at trying to make Palin look intelligent, and we all know that isn't possible.
Sincerely,
Ron Hussein Christman
- 8 votes
pitboss,
I was retorting on your question to trm if he was a Castro supporter "too." I Don't care about the other individual whatsoever. Just questioning your reaction to her arguments.
- 4 votes
Maybe Terri Schiavo family should have signed McCathy Bachmann's "Health Care Declaration of Independece"
- 4 votes
Bachmann opposes govt intervention eh??? Doesn't she get federal foster care AND farm subsidies? Handouts from my tax dollars to house foster kids and NOT grow crops!!! How does her use of federal handouts provide support her view that we should be independent of the govt? Sounds like hypocrisy to me.
- 4 votes
James, thanks, but I thought trm was talking about the truther's fictional detention facilities. I checked out www.americorps.org and they do look a little creepy. I've never known anyone that went so I will reserve judgement.
- 3 votes
Hey pitboss, in what world is Palin a successful woman? Hasn't she pretty much quit every important job she has had? Is that was passes for success these days?
- 2 votes
I thought trm was talking about the truther's fictional detention facilities
If I am not mistaken, they are one and the same, all part of the same irrational meme.
- 2 votes
1 & 2: The Constitution of the United States of America is the reason. That is what separates us from every other nation and what makes us the Greatest Nation on earth. The United States of America is made up of 50 separate states and commonwealths, and only those States not the Federal Government have the right to MANDATE something like health care on its citizens. If a state such as Massachusetts wants to mandate health care on its citizens, that is constitutional, if the federal government wants to.....not so constitutional and will be challenged in court if passed.
Personally pitboss, if this is your answer to those questions, then I would think you would be railing for an amendment to the constitution so that we could finally bring our nation up to par with every other industrilized nation. Your nationlism is showing, and it's very nice to see that, but unluckily simply saying over and over that we are the greatest nation on the planet doesn't suffice without the tough work to keep us there.
- 3 votes
Thanks for the clarification James (education camps). I was busy with my granddaughter yesterday evening. Of course, when you show proof, someone changes the argument.
- 3 votes
COH #1, you two. Play nice or Tyler will smack you with the Ban Hammer.
Pit Boss:
Ron Christman has asked you some valid questions, all of which you manage to avoid answering. Instead, you have provided the typical Republican response to questions about fact -- misdirection, distortion and prevarication. He asked:
1. Why are we the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have universal health care? How do we claim a higher moral standing than others when we find it acceptable to make a profit on the misery and illnesses of our citizens when all other nations believe it is morally reprehensible to treat their people that way?
and
2. Why do 35-40 other industrialized countries recognize that a healthy, productive workforce through universal health care makes them more competitive in a global marketplace? Why are we the only one that doesn't?
And you answered:
1 & 2: The Constitution of the United States of America is the reason... If a state such as Massachusetts wants to mandate health care on its citizens, that is constitutional, if the federal government wants to.....not so constitutional and will be challenged in court if passed.
Unconstitutional? Specifically, why? If Republicans believe that the provision of essential services by the Feds is unconstitutional, and that these obligations fall to the State, why do Republicans not base their opposition to HCR on this argument, rather than making up lies and false statistics to advance their case.
Ron asks:
3. Why are we the only nation in the world that allows insurance companies to deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions?
pitboss answers:
Let me give you a simple explanation of insurance: Party A agrees to pay Party B premiums and Party B agrees to pay a claim if Party A has an UNFORSEEN even. The key to insurance is the UNFORSEEN part, you cannot insure something with a 100% chance of claim because the premiums will need to be the amount of the claim.
So you are saying it's fair or legal for an insurance company to collect premiums, then cancel whole policies on the grounds of a single, arbitrarily declared, "pre-existing condition"?
Ron asked:
4. Why are we are spending 50% more of our GDP on health care costs than any other nation? The average annual costs for countries with universal health care is 10% of GDP. France, with the best health care in the world, pays just 11% of their GDP versus our 16% of GDP. Why are health care costs in countries with universal coverage half of what our costs are (two of forty countries are slightly over half of our costs)?
and
5. Why do we rank 37th in overall quality of care and 72nd in overall health of 191 countries evaluated? The facts are that virtually every nation with universal care spends far less on their health care than we do with far better results.
pitboss answers:
4 and 5: I'm not going to debate the quality of care in the US with other countries, I think it is number 1, you don't, fine we agree to disagree.
You're responding to factual statements by attempting to reduce them to opinion. How about addressing the facts?
Ron asked:
6. Why, if Republicans are worried about deficits, did they pass the Medicare drug bill without a means to pay for it? President Obama has said that health care reform will be budget neutral and has reinstated PayGo requirements for congress. (PayGo = all new expenditures must be balanced by reductions elsewhere or paid for by new revenues).
And you responded:
I'm not going to debate Reb's vs Dem's because it is stupid question, they both run up huge deficits
Actually, not. It is a verifiable fact that it's the Republicans that run up the deficit and the Democrats that bring it down.
Which brings me to my question: How can ANYONE that claims to be an advocate of government responsibility support a party that has consistently overspent to the point of bankruptcy? And how can ANYONE, who claims even a shred of personal responsibility, support a party that lowers taxes while starting a war, and then, in the face of a crushing debt, continues to advocate for lower taxes.
Every time I read of a rally or gathering by your group, Tax Evaders of America, I have to shake my head in wonder. Where are your brains? Can you not add and subtract?
- 3 votes
Just and Ron and any other supporter of Government Run Health Care, I have a solution if the Democrats want to pass this without anyone else:
You want to be in the Government Plan, you have to be a Democrat and only Democrats will pay the taxes. Also, if you are a Democrat and you were able to KEEP any of YOUR money because of the evil Bush tax cuts, you have to give that money back and put it into a fund to give healthcare to the less fortunate. Everyone (non-Democrats) else can keep their current plan or no plan if they choose and are exempt from the taxes.
Lets see how fast the Democrat tent closes up shop!! You Socialists love spending everyone else's money!! Socialists = leech
Pitbull:
Just and Ron and any other supporter of Government Run Health Care, I have a solution if the Democrats want to pass this without anyone else:
You want to be in the Government Plan, you have to be a Democrat and only Democrats will pay the taxes. Also, if you are a Democrat and you were able to KEEP any of YOUR money because of the evil Bush tax cuts, you have to give that money back and put it into a fund to give healthcare to the less fortunate. Everyone (non-Democrats) else can keep their current plan or no plan if they choose and are exempt from the taxes.
I still can't figure out why you guys are so concerned about taxes when you've just pulled off the most massive tax evasion in the history of the world. Howl as you will, this debt must be paid, and it will be paid with taxes. The Tooth Fairy won't do it for ya.
Lets see how fast the Democrat tent closes up shop!! You Socialists love spending everyone else's money!! Socialists = leech
Your problem is that you've been so suckered in by the Republican idea that you can spend all the taxpayer money you can borrow or print and then retreat into the states to avoid paying any of it back.
That's not going to happen, bub.
- 2 votes
You want to be in the Government Plan, you have to be a Democrat and only Democrats will pay the taxes.
Have we really sunk so low that this childish bull@!$%# passes for political dialogue?
Tell you what, PitBoss, we can do that. That's a great idea. But there's some additional accounting that needs to be done first.
Let's start with the Reagan/Bush Sr era cold war spending. Most of the Democrats had a problem with that - they thought it was fiscally irresponsible.
So... that's ~$3,000,000,000,000 For the 1980s
We also thought the Bush Tax cuts were a terrible idea and the wars should have been paid for outright. The accounting is still out on the wars so we'll ignore them for now. So Bush II comes to a total of .... ~$5,000,000,000,000
So you're $8 Trillion in the hole.
And remember, this is a charitable accounting. I'm only dealing with the deficits, not what the Republicans actually spent on idiotic tax cuts for the upper 1% and expensive toys.
Still want to divide the spending ideologically? Statistically speaking, the Right should really shut its collective pie hole on this issue, 90% of the financial difficulties this country faces today rest squarely on the shoulders of irresponsible Republican spending.
When you and your 150,000,000 best friends cut the US treasury a personal check for $53,333 we'll talk about what you do and don't need to pay for when it comes to government programs. Right now, however, you've run up the national tab quite enough.
Honestly, it's like there's an entire party made up of homophobic, religiously fanatical, emotionally insecure valley girls complaining about being asked to pay for gas on their way home from a five digit romp at the mall with daddy's credit card.
- 2 votes
just and Kil,
Guys... I'm not a Republican, please show me where I ever posted that I was. Show me where I ever glorified George Bush and his massive spending (I'm not going to lie, I Love the tax break, 33% of my salary is more than enough to be a Patriotic Taxpayer!), if he cut spending, then I would have praised him. I'm for a small Federal government, and a free market , if you can produce posts where I've said otherwise, please do. I'm against big government and government interference in the free market (the Government has to be the invisible hand, not the infinate hand). So don't loop me in with the Republicans just because I prefer their CONSERVATIVE ideas and not the LIBERAL PRGRESSIVE ideas of the Democrats.
Show me where the current pres is being any more fiscally responsible than the previous. You can't, his deficits are already record setting and there is no end in sight. Both Dems and Reps are to blame!!
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/print/45528
You really think the Dems will bring the defict and debt down? Come on, both parties are killing us with debt
So don't loop me in with the Republicans just because I prefer their CONSERVATIVE ideas and not the LIBERAL PRGRESSIVE ideas of the Democrats.
Welcome to the two party system, where if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and swims like a duck it's a god-damned duck.
And it's a testament to the unpopularity of ducks that they're claiming to be something else.
Look, you can call yourself whatever it is you like; I really don't care how you self identify politically. But we live in a two party system and while politically really shouldn't be - in my mind - "us" and "them," our founding fathers, in their infinite wisdom, saw fit to create a system that creates exactly that dynamic.
Congratulations, you're an IINO. Independent In Name Only... of the Republican flavor. We'll just call you a Republican to keep it clear. If it bothers you that much, stop acting, voting, and talking like one.
- 2 votes
You can call me what you want, and how do you know how I vote?
Whats the matter you can't come up with anything of substance to show HUSSEIN is going to do anything other than running deficits for the next 10 years??? Show me where where he is going balance the budget, don't come back with it will only be 600 billion either, that is 600 billion more than he should spend..... Ya sure HUSSEIN is a real change in Washington!! He changed from the Tax and Spend Liberal, to the Tax, Print, Borrow and Spend Socialist.
If he talks like a socialist, walks like socialist, and acts like a socialist, he must be a SOCIALIST!!
If he talks like a socialist, walks like socialist, and acts like a socialist, he must be a SOCIALIST!!
goes both ways Pitboss.
both parties are killing us with debt
See 1.59
G Bud
I like Cashill, he's to say the least, intersting.
What about Cloward and Piven, more people should know about them and the SDS.
Hey Killfile the Communist,
I'm still waiting for the links to the sites that show Hussein is going to balance the Budget and how only Repubs run deficits. Whats the matter that info isn't out there? Its not right next to the info on the Stimulus being a success and created or "saved" millions of jobs? Try looking right next to the info on Bigfoot, the Tooth Fairy, the Loch Ness Monster, they are all in the Fiction section!
Hey Killfile the Communist,
First, that is a violation of the code of Honor. Secondly, you are completely misinformed. I suppose our ballooning debt, independent of any policies of the last year, proposed or adopted, is a myth as well? Why would you work so hard to subvert our government?
- 3 votes
James,
Hey Killfile the Communist,
how is that a violation? He is a Commie, just like he said, if it posts like a commie, if seeds like a commie, if it links like a commie, it must be a commie!!
I suppose our ballooning debt, independent of any policies of the last year, proposed or adopted, is a myth as well?
Where have I ever said that? W spent recklessly, HUSSEIN is spending even more recklessly
Why would you work so hard to subvert our government?
Are you serious guy?? Subvert, ask HUSSEIN's buddy William Ayers about subverting government!!!! '
The Government is being subverted from 1600 Penslyvania Avenue, HUSSEIN doesn't need any help from me!!!
how is that a violation? He is a Commie, just like he said, if it posts like a commie, if seeds like a commie, if it links like a commie, it must be a commie!!
Pro-Tip: It helps to have at least some clue about that which you're posting. The political ideology I hold and discuss here on Newsvine diverges significantly from any interpretation of communism.
For starters, I spend a great deal of time talking about how great markets are. Communists don't get along so well with markets.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and swims like a duck it's a god-damned duck... not a marmoset, despite your seeming inability to tell the two apart.
I'll cop to "socialist" though; I like socialist programs like public education and interstate highways.
- 6 votes
Are you serious guy?? Subvert, ask HUSSEIN's buddy William Ayers about subverting government!!!!
Well hey, if Nixon and Reagan gave money to the foundation Ayers was part of then they were government subverters as well.
Hussein means "good, handsome one." You just keep complimenting him over and over.
PS. what is your middle name so we can call you by it?
- 1 vote
Pitboss
Two sides to every coin. OK you sucked me in.
The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.
Unwittingly this is exactly what bounced back and bit previous administrations, With the exception that they empowered top capitalists instead of hastening there fall as described. They opened the door and the worst traits of mankind rose to grandeur. When the government works as a mafia for interests of other than we the people, It then becomes a personal decision as to determine right and wrong , good and evil, greed vs. philanthropy, etc. where I make the separation/distinction in my mind comes down to the whistle blowing front men that back up facts and dissolve the fiction and illusions.. In this case I believe the Cloward piven strategy and whom it applies to is based more on conjecture and fortune telling with no real whistle blowers to connect the dots and validate their wishful propaganda. I'm not against capitalists who put people and the well being of our land first and foremost. I am against capitalists when their Greed and their Need suck every dime out of economies, Individuals and mother earth, Thus leaving things in shambles and individuals enslaved.
History = facts more then jumping to conclusions when charting a course for the future.
- 1 vote
Kilfile the SOCIALIST
I'm sorry, communists are socialists with guns!
Ya public education is great, 1st thing cut in a budget crisis!!! Highways are crumbling!! You picked two winners!!!
Hey George, my name means the same thing!!!!
how is that a violation? He is a Commie
Setting aside your ill-informed use of the word "commie," Republicans are an accepted and integral part of our society and government. Communists, or 'Commies' to use your colloquialism, are poorly thought of and derided. Therefore, your use of the term is a form of derision, and inflammatory.
Where have I ever said that? W spent recklessly, HUSSEIN is spending even more recklessly
You have been so badly disinformed. It's too bad. It does give me hope that your subversive acts are out of pure ignorance and not malicious.
What you did say implied that President Obama's policies would lead to more debt, when the opposite, by all independent accounting, is true. On the current course, one of two things is guaranteed: USA bankruptcy, or significantly higher taxes for everyone. The Presidents policies are designed to mitigate that. Any honest assessment makes that clear.
Subvert, ask HUSSEIN's buddy William Ayers about subverting government!!!!
And then, denying your own complicity, you spread more subversive rhetoric. Or perhaps you think it is the American ideal that we call our President a socialist, terrorist, Arab Muslim?
You are engaged in the definition of subversive propaganda.
All willful acts that are intended to be detrimental to the best interests of the government and that do not fall into the categories of treason, sedition, sabotage, or espionage are placed in the category of subversive activity.
- 4 votes
James,
You got me, I'm subversive, I'm destroying the country!! Republicans and Conservatives are evil, Liberals, Progressives, Communists/Socialist are great!! I hear ya!
Hey G,
History is nothing but a fable agreed upon. paraphrased
You got me, I'm subversive, I'm destroying the country!! Republicans and Conservatives are evil, Liberals, Progressives, Communists/Socialist are great!! I hear ya!
Not surprisingly, you have it wrong again.
It isn't about your political orientation. It's about you using disinformation to affect the political process.
Honest debate has long been welcomed in this country. Those who lie and divide have never in history been considered constructive.
- 4 votes
History is nothing but a fable agreed upon. paraphrased
I have always said the same thing about the historical document known as the Bible.
But in fact Republican icons HAVE given to Ayers' organization. Are they hanging with terrorists?
hey james,
So would the people calling GWB a war criminal while he was president and Moveon.org be considered Subversive?
Gerorge,
I wasn't talking to you when I gave the quote from Napoleon, but I know you are chomping at the bit to do it, so...... Where is your proof that My Republican Icons (even though I am not a Republican) gave money to William Ayers? I
So would the people calling GWB a war criminal while he was president and Moveon.org be considered Subversive?
Could be. The difference is that there were actual laws and principles that were violated, so that assessment is not demonstrably true or false.
It is demonstrably false that the President is a Muslim, that he and Ayers were more than acquaintances, and that the Presidents policies will lead to greater debt than what is already accruing.
- 3 votes
that he and Ayers were more than acquaintances
How can you make a statement like that? How do you know, its almost like Killfile saying he knows how I vote!!
and that the Presidents policies will lead to greater debt than what is already accruing.
Now your statement on HUSSEIN and the Democrat controlled congress spending spree is true.
It is demonstrably false that the President is a Muslim
He has a Muslim name, but that doesn't make him a Muslim, I know........
its almost like Killfile saying he knows how I vote!!
For what it's worth, what with this being a two party system, I don't have to know how you vote; I only have to know how you don't vote.
Let's just say that's not a difficult riddle to crack.
- 4 votes
How can you make a statement like that?
By adhering to the accepted standards of evidence. Living by accepted standards is something members of a civilized society agree to do.
Now your statement on HUSSEI
More disinformation? Presenting my interpretation of your statement as if it were my position? I don't know how much longer I will be able to give your subversive tactics the benefit of the doubt.
He has a Muslim name
Again, you are not correct. 'Hussein' is an Arabicized version of a Hasidic name. But maybe you would also have a problem with the Hasidic name 'Jesse.'
- 3 votes
Kilfife the Socialist (if you haven't picked up on the Romanism......)
Please show me where it says in the Constitution that the USA is a two party system...
GBud
Nope, but I have quite a few that work for me, I have quite a few Dems as well, what are you getting at?
James,
By adhering to the accepted standards of evidence. Living by accepted standards is something members of a civilized society agree to do.
Evidence?? Show me evidence that HUSSEIN and Ayers never talked about Marxism together.
You all know that after HUSSEIN and his communist cohorts create a Communist State here in the USA and dissolve the Constitution, HUSSEIN is going to release his college Transcripts and Papers, and his Propaganda Minister Van Jones is going allow every student in the government controlled PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM the privilege to read and memorize the words of CHAIRMAN HUSSEIN. He is then going to loan the papers to his comrades in Moscow and they are going to put them on display right next the HUSSEIN's hero, Vladimir Lenin. He is even going to rename the USA highway system the REVEREND Jeremiah WRIGHT Highway System. And he is also going to change the term "In God We Trust" to "Those who trust God are Damned".
I have as much evidence saying that as James has of saying HUSSEIN and Ayers were nothing more than acquaintances!
I have as much evidence saying that as James has
Are you an American citizen?
If you are, you may know that one of our principles is that people are innocent until proven guilty.
That means that you can't convict someone just by saying they did something. You have to provide evidence. Then, of course, there is the entire logical issue of proving negatives.
These are the principles and standards our country lives by. Do you disagree with them?
- 3 votes
James,
Do you even know who William Ayers is and what he took part in?
What am I convicting HUSSEIN of, it isn't a crime to be an aquintance of person who took part in blowing up federal property in the 60's, you just can't be an acquaintance of a person who did it the 90'sespecially if your last name is Nichols. Why isn't Timothy McVeigh teaching Militia Studies classes at the Oklahoma State University, oh ya, he blew up federal property and was put to death. Was what McVeigh did wrong- YES!!!! Was What Ayers did wrong- YES!! Should Ayers be teaching at a College? No he should be in the ground next to McVeigh or in prison, preferably in the ground!!
I can't wait for you LEFTIES to defend WILLIAM AYERS participating in the DESTRUCTION of FEDERAL PROPERTY!!!
Please show me where it says in the Constitution that the USA is a two party system...
Happy to. Let's start with the 12th Ammendment. It deals mostly with the election of the President and Vice President by the electoral college:
The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
Prize for 2nd Place? A big fat nothing.
Now a little study of Nash Equilibrium and some basic game theory will tell you that, in a "Winner Take All" system like this, the field divides neatly into two distinct camps. This makes sense if you think about it; if you disagree with the Republican Party and decide to start your own largely conservative party with a few distinctions from the GOP, you end up siphoning votes away from the GOP. The result is that the Democrats win the election and the people with whom you most disagree end up in power.
The inevitable result of this is the formation of two polar but "big tent" parties incorporating the various viewpoints that would otherwise become minority parties.
Amendment 17 extends the winner-take-all system to the Senate (not necessarily, but since there are only two a parliamentary system is pretty much impossible)
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.
Again, winner-take-all means two parties. Since there's no prize for 2nd place no one has any rational choice but to accept compromise in the interest of victory and that pushes you into one of the two major parties.
Indeed the only place that we have room in the Federal System for more than one party is in the house. The Constitution is vauge on the election of Representitives and they are sufficiently numerous as to allow a parlimentry system:
The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States
Of course, that's not how we do it. The states turn those into small winner-take-all races in the districts. Some districts are small enough to support a multi-party system simply because there is insufficient interest in the elections, but that is fairly uncommon.
There you have it. As I said we live in a two party system and while [politics] really shouldn't be - in my mind - "us" and "them," our founding fathers, in their infinite wisdom, saw fit to create a system that creates exactly that dynamic.
[Emphasis added]
- 3 votes
' pit_boss - Not a defense of Ayers but a statement of fact. William Ayers was never arrested, never convicted of any crime. He and his (later) wife went into hiding for many years after a bomb blew up in an apartment killing some other Weatherman members but I've never seen anything that connected him to any of the crimes. His only connection I've seen was that he was one of the founding members of the Weatherman organization. Whether we like it or not, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty.
- 2 votes
Hi Ron,
Whats next, you going to defend Hitler because he was never arrested and prosecuted?
Here is something that will connect him to the bombings, a quote from the NYT "I don't regret setting bombs, I feel we didn't do enough". As to why he was never prosecuted, I don't care, all I know is that he is Commie scum and should not be teaching anything!!! Go look for yourself, I'm sick of providing links, do your own homework and learn something.
Ayers is a HUSSEIN contributor!! Just the type of people HUSSEIN feels comfortable with, plus HUSSEIN has been to Ayers house!!! Keep defending people like this, it just adds fuel to the fire!!
Kilfile the Socialist,
How do you explain Bernie Sanders? He is not a Democrat. And nothing that you posted said two parties, all it says is one winner.
I signed the declaration, thanks pit boss. As for your trying to convince these people of the fallacy of their thinking; it ain't gonna happen. They have enhanced the supposed rights of these members of the Weathermen because it is easier to forget the sins of the past then face them, head on. True Ayers was not tried. Why, only the government knows. But he has made statements, as you have stated, that shows his lack of remorse and his participation in the bomb making.
His original leadership in that organization is unquestioned. Is not an accessory to murder still considered a murderer?
Someone explain how you can arrive at that sort of decision that says he has a right to teach our young people with that sort of history. I can not understand the democratic process that says it is good to reward that unrepentant behavior. An admitted home grown terrorist, and he was rewarded. He has admitted his participation.
Oh, that is right. He was not tried in a court of law so even when you admit guilt, you are not guilty. How stupid is that logic? The most basic kind, the kind where the ostrich sticks her head in the sand and does not see the lion attacking. Stupid logic. And he helped elect this president. That surely does ensure faith in his judgement. Yeah, right. I am really reassured.
I have gone back and reread the posts that were longer and harder to understand.
Ever hear of gang banging. This bunch is really good at that. I wonder if they have a union or are independent contractors? If they had masks on we could call them gang members.
An inability to understand plain english and to subvert what they do read is beyond belief.
Pit boss, a friend request is sent your way. As for the rest of you, good grief! Try to remember what it is to be an American.
Pit Boss:
Guys... I'm not a Republican, please show me where I ever posted that I was....
I guess this is what the pollsters mean when they say that fewer than 20% of voters are now willing to identify themselves as Republican.
Hee hee hee. I'm ROTFLMHO. :)
- 2 votes
Do you even know who William Ayers is and what he took part in?
We were discussing the President of the United States.
Try to remember what it is to be an American.
I remember. We don't call our President a terrorist. Or do we?
- 3 votes
Hey G,
History is nothing but a fable agreed upon. paraphrased
So your saying stuff like the Holocaust or World war II are fairytales , your going to have to explain your parapharse because I'm not getting it. You sound like Imadenajad , yea I know I can't spell..
even though I am not a Republican
Do you work for one?
Nope, but I have quite a few that work for me, I have quite a few Dems as well, what are you getting at?
No need to get paraniod, nobody is seeking up on you, At Least not me. You answered my question Thanks.
Neli,
I guess this is what the pollsters mean when they say that fewer than 20% of voters are now willing to identify themselves as Republican.
Less than 20%? Wow that is quite a stat, 20% preventing HUSSIEN's agenda, wow, they must be really smart to be able to do that!! Oh ya, the Republican's aren't holding anything up, the Democrats are. I love how Democrats think their feces don't stink. Progressivism is going to splinter the Dems. Today's Democrat party isn't your father's Democrats . I already saw it last night, Rachel Maddow attacking Stupak, how long before rational Democrats become sick of being pushed to vote for things they know aren't RIGHT...... there are 54 Blue Dogs in Congress. You so-called Democrats in here would be attacking JFK if he were running today, he's too Conservative! So Neli, keep yelling scoreboard like the Reps did in the 90's, because INDEPENDENT thinkers have the momentum and the Progressives time to dance is over soon.
James
Typical Liberal, change the subject when you are WRONG!
We don't call our President a terrorist.
I'm not going to post you any link, you can look yourself, google GWB is a terrorist. So typical of you Libs!!
G.Bud
History = facts more then jumping to conclusions when charting a course for the future.
Listen t. guy, if you are not there to see the "facts" how do you know they are true? That is why I posted my quote. If the Germans had won WWII what do you think the fable would be? To the victor go the spoils and the victor gets to write the history.
read the books or view the videos in their entirety in obvious you cannot stomach facts and are easy marks for the con-men and hit men yourselves .
Easy marks? Paranoid much? You check under your bed and in the closet before you went to bed last night? The Boogieman might get you!
I love you Liberals, you think if you read a book or get a degree you are soooooo much smarter than anyone else. Oh, Zinn said this or Comsky said this, or the Nash Equilibrium says this. You live in a dream world, that is not how it is, accept it, no matter how much you twist facts the world is what it is, and always will be, Utopia is a book of fiction, not reality. Hey Bud, why don't you read Adam Smith and how economics is supposed to work instead of taking what those charlatan authors CON you with. Fair Trade coffee beans for example, it shows how fat and lazy Americans have become. That is the type of mindset that leads to DECLINE. The US debt is what, approaching 14 TRILLION dollars?? Lets pay more than we have to, ya that is smart, and it upsets the economy. Give us your poor your tired your huddled massses longing to be free is dead, why come to us when we'll just give it to them?? So when the US goes bankrupt and no one will by our debt and you need a wheel barrel full of Benjamin Franklins to buy a loaf of bread, you think say China will give us FAIR TRADE on our exports? No, the rest of the world will cut the US up and take what ever scraps they can get. Keep your fair trade coffee beans, I want my EXPLOITED beans!! You fat, lazy, gluttons are the reason the US is declining, look in the mirror next time you are looking for someone to blame!!
Pit, I believe that our medical technology is as advanced as it is is because of the tremendous amount of PUBLIC funding that has gone into educating health care practioners and research. It is justice that maintains peoples freedoms, not capitalism. I believe it is unjust to keep expecting people to keep paying taxes for something they have absolutely no access to, but sheiks, princes, and Japanese mafia with millions of dollars to spend can be on our organ transplant lists and buy an American organ donors organ, one who probably works as a waitress somewhere with no access to health care. Sorry, you can argue the dollars all you want to, but this does not sit as "right" to me.
- 1 vote
Looks like you woke up on the republican side of the bed this morning Pit, I'd lay off the caffeine a bit. You still seem to keep Overlooking what I say about good and bad capitalism and tend to just attack everything that is remotely insubordinate.. Your pretty much reinforcing my stereo type of fascism.
- 1 vote
And Pit, addressing your comment about Medicare fraud, you can ask anyone who works in health care, the Obama administration started really investigating and tackling fraud in early 2009, which is the first big effort to address this.
Typical Liberal, change the subject when you are WRONG!
Really? How did we go from talking about your subversive behavior, to the President, to Bill Ayers, and now you want me to Google something? I don't think I am the one who has been changing the subject.
Look, for the sake of your country, just be honest. Don't lie about people, particularly not our leaders.
Ben Franklin said "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I think it might also be said that those who would sacrifice American ideals for a temporary political victory, deserve neither America nor a place in her politics.
Be well.
- 1 vote
James,
So you say that I'm subversive, yet our president Barry Hussein took money from, sat on a board with, and even visited the house of,a DOMESTIC TERRORIST. Why don't you take your head out of what you know what and think about you are saying to me. How am I lying about that? It is all fact, so while you want to defend a DOMESTIC TERRORIST and obviously do not care that Ayers, an admitted COMMUNIST is teaching at a PUBLIC university I'm calling for the truth and JUSTICE! I guess searching for truth is only subversive if you a Conservative! So I bet you'll also support the ruling to not bring charges against ALL the Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philly. What if it had been Skin heads???? Take you double standards and stick them where your head is! Be Ill!!
I think it might also be said that those who would sacrifice American ideals for a temporary political victory, deserve neither America nor a place in her politics.
Tell that to Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barry Hussein in their pushing for this "reform", which the MAJORITY of Americans don't want. What is the rush, a temporary political victory for Dems???? I'm going to tell you once again, google what the Virginia Legislature just passed! Reform needs to be at the state level and not the Federal level.
Gbud,
Overlooking what I say about good and bad capitalism
Of course I'm going to overlook what you say about "good" and "bad" capitalism, you know why, I don't care what you have to say, you either don't know what you are talking about, or you don't believe what you are saying. If you preached what you spoke you'd be battling these Commies in here and their Big Government and the TAKEOVER of Healthcare, that leads to BARRY HUSSEIN and the FEDERAL Government being the INFINITE hand instead of the INVISIBLE hand. Capitalism depends on the invisible hand incase you didn't know.
You showed your hand pitboss and you have nothing , not even a good poker face. I highly doubt you have any employees, cause you have zero people skills and I wouldn't be surprised if your on the governments watch list. The hate you spew reeks of fascism. I haven't heard anything come out of your mouth but evil retoric.
Capitalism depends on the invisible hand incase you didn't know.
eww... a 18th century metaphor, aren't you up to date. Sorry.. capitalism does not depend on a coined phrase.... Have you ever heard of Truth and honesty? it's one of the best business principles I know of. But then again I'm not trying to take control of foriegn assets, Suck every dime out economies , individuals and inslave people... Go right ahead and be self serving, I believe in collective endeavors with openness and honesty. I still belive in dignity and believe ... United we stand divided we fall.
- 2 votes
Capitalist money funds research, not the government. The things that the gov't gets involved in generally proves to be half assed, IE: flu vaccines that make people sick, and vaccines that hurt military personnelbecause of inadequate testing. Oh, that is right they use the military as guinia pigs.
Who pays for the research? And we send medicine to Canada, as an exchange of some sort. That allows the Canadians to sell it more cheaply to their patients. We do the work, they get the benefit. I can't prove it but I will bet our government had their collective hand in that deal too.
gbud is not understanding the principles of the free market system which we used to have Not so much because of government interference, of course, but still the best working model.
Reform should be on the state level. That is the Constitutional way. Those who have ceded their rights in favor of federal government control are ignorant of what the whole system was slated to be. You hear every day of these people willing to allow both sides of the aisle to tell them what to do and how to do it. And they hand their money over so the gov't can baby sit them.
Incredibly stupid, and lazy and totally against the Constitution. pitboss; there is no way you will educate these people. They are happy letting someone else wipe their butts. There isn't a pair between the lot of them. I will look for more of your work on the vine but I am leaving this site.
States rights are almost a thing of the past and the state legislatures are filled with panty waisted, short sighted individuals, who are afraid of the feds so do not do anything besides capitulate. What a damn shame!
- 1 vote
I can't prove it but I will bet our government had their collective hand in that deal too.
Yes you can prove it the deal is called NAFTA and there is a bill before congress right now to reverse it here is the bill number: H.R. 4759.
Call your representatives and ask them to support the bill.
- 1 vote
gbud is not understanding the principles of the free market system which we used to have Not so much because of government interference, of course, but still the best working model.
You're not understanding Judi. A truly free market is one where everyone plays by the same rules. In a global economy, every country has its own rules. Free markets are a myth.
Do you think we should have a completely free market, and let Asia dump as many toys, cars, and electronics on our country as they want?
- 2 votes
Judi, wrong. Lots and lots and lots of government monies(ours) finance research and technologies in every facet of our lives and beyond.
- 1 vote
Single-Payer & Interlocking Directorates
The corporate ties between insurers and media companies
A recent FAIR study of nine major media corporations and their major outlets, Disney (ABC), General Electric (NBC), CBS, Time Warner (CNN, Time), News Corporation (Fox), New York Times Co., Washington Post Co. (Newsweek), Tribune Co. (Chicago Tribune, L.A. Times) and Gannett (USA Today) found connections to six different insurance companies. Five out of the nine media corporations studied shared a director with an insurance company; two insurance companies—Chubb and Berkshire Hathaway—were represented by more than one media corporation director.
The study also found crossover between these media corporations and several large pharmaceutical companies, such as Eli Lilly, Merck and Novartis, whose profits would also likely be negatively impacted by a single-payer system. Out of the nine media corporations studied, six had directors who also represented the interests of at least one pharmaceutical company. In fact, save for CBS, every media corporation had board connections to either an insurance or pharmaceutical company.
- 13 votes
#5 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:35 AM ESTNot surprised. I guess that explains why CNN was selling the bogus "nuclear option" crap.
- 15 votes
Why are any companies sharing directors? One would think that would enter the realms of conflict of interest in the worst/easiest possible ways. Of course, that was the point of your post.
- 1 vote
America is going through one of its finest moments now that Health Care reform is passing. Imagine how many physicians world wide will be headed to America bringing with them the knowledge of proper health care and not like some of the doctors here in America that are nothing more than Mechanics that leave screws loose so that you have to return for the Dr. Feelgood pill.
- 11 votes
#6 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:37 AM ESTUntil you remove the insurance company bureaucrat wedged between an American patient and their physician, you will be getting no foreign physicans in the US. Until there is a single payer system, and it's there is no insurance company bureaucrat overruling a physician's decision, foreign physicians will stay where they are. Foreign physicians are used to having autonomy in medical decisions and the payer (government) just pays the bill and doesn't interfere with medical decisions of who gets treated and what treatment they get, which is what insurance company bureaucrats decide in the US.
- 1 vote
I would like to thank Madam Pelosi for her leadership.
- 14 votes
#7 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:38 AM ESTMe too PresObamaforeveramen
I think she is a phenominal speaker of the house. Thank you Madam Pelosi. I applaud you and your effort to do what is right for me and mine. I can't tell you how stressed my family is over the rising cost of our premiums and our co-pay. I pay as much for my premiums as I do for my house mortgage (per month) and if anyone in my family gets sick - we are done - we will have to drop the insurance so that I can keep a roof over our head.
My son's wife doesn't have insurance - she just had to go to the emergency room for a burst ovarian cyst. Guess how much that visit cost and guess who will end up paying for that visit. Yep, you and me. The hospital raises its cost to accomodate those going through the emergency room with no insurance and because they raise their prices, the insurance companies, in turn, raise their premiums to you and me. If my daughter-in-law had an affordable health insurance, she would not have had to go to the emergency room. She would have been able to go the an ob/gyn who could have done a quick ultra-sound in his office at a much lower rate than through the emergency room and would have been able to prescribe medication for this. I know I had the same thing happen to me and I did go to my ob/gyn at a much cheaper rate.
But I guess that just doesn't matter to those against comprehensive health care reform. If this bill doesn't get passed - WE ARE ALL SCREWED.
- 14 votes
wow - Do you think I actually give a flying monkey's butt what you think. Do you actually think your post means anything to me. No need to reply - IT DOESN'T. Thank goodness I don't have your miserable life. Thank goodness I'm not leaving my life up to you and your ilk. Thank Goodness I voted for Barack Obama. I definitely would have had a miserable life if I had voted for McCain.
- 10 votes
wow - Do you think I actually give a flying monkey's butt what you think
Make mine a pink shiny orangutan butt! LOL DEBEKI
- 7 votes
One pink shiny orangutan butt now on back order - there's has been a run on that item as I can see a lot of those flying around on this thread.
- 6 votes
Wow! Do you really beleive the government is the answer to all of your problems?
For problems with regulation? Why yes, I do. There is no other entity in our United States with the authority to regulate as the federal can so it's a pretty good bet that they are the ones we should turn to. Who did you want regulating?
- 3 votes
Who did you want regulating?
Definitely not insurance companies. They've proven to be guilty of massive greed, massive overhead, and massive bureaucracy. Insurance companies are raising rates by 39% this year. Overhead of insurance companies is 41%, overhead of a single payer system is under 8%. For indentical sized hospitals, insurance run health care requires 150 office employees, a single payer system requires as few as 8 employees to do the same job, so insurance run health care requires almost 20 times more bureaucracy than a single payer system.
- 2 votes
Well it could be the message that’s being put out there and in today’s world that’s cost $$$ and the paid Media.
What sells,
Sara Palin and a small group of loud people Screams praise the lord.
Another small group who like Earl Gray Tea Screaming We want OUR country Back, we got guns.
The past GWB Admin that bankrupted the country are "NOW" they know who the Traitors are.
WoW ! a angry American story, That sells
Hummmm what? People protesting for the down home salt of the earth American people ,, ???,,, Naaa,, that wont SELL.
Stupid low life’s Get you' r own H/C,,, I got mine!~.
- 5 votes
#8 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:05 PM ESTbut the only major TV network that carried live coverage of this healthcare reform rally in D.C. yesterday was Fox
that must be what they mean by " fair and balanced"
Note if you got a problem with insurance company profits ...wait till obam care forces you to buy insurance..Obama care will be win win for insurance companies
- 1 vote
#9 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:07 PM ESTAnother small group who like Earl Gray Tea Screaming We want OUR country Back, we got guns.
Ah, yes, the latest "conservative" deadbeat club: Tax Evaders of America.
- 2 votes
The US media is bought and paid for by Big insurance, Pharma, and other large for profit industries. Our media is the worst, censored media I have ever seen. They have their own political agenda's and the news is swayed towards that agenda. That is why, I go outside of the US for news sources, it is more accurate. All you have to do is watch the Nightly News, and count how many drug commercials there are. I counted 15 drug commericals in the 30 minute newscast. The Insurance and Pharmacutical companies are controlling, the media and propaganda that people see, view and hear. Profits before People, needs to change to People before Profits.
- 9 votes
#11 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:50 PM ESTreal patriots. the tea party should learn to protest the real culprits of our corporatist/fascist system, the actual companies that control the government.
- 6 votes
#13 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:23 PM ESTTeabaggers are too busy protesting on behalf of the actual companies that control the government. They're just too stupid to know it.
- 9 votes
PeaBuggers are the ones who want an insurance company bureaucrat to continue being wedged between you and your physician. PeaBuggers, with their 18th century funny hats, 18th century thinking, and 1930's Nazi signs are all for corporate profit at the expense of the common people they pretend to be.
i agree with you john. they actually believe that "the evil government" is the one calling the shots, which they are not. The voters stopped calling the shots since the two party system was born and corporations started influencing domestic policy. Its really sad how they are fighting the wrong system and befriending the real enemy.
I watched the major media outlets become corporate shills. I watched as the Chicago Tribune bought out the Hartford Courant and changed the editorial policy to a right-wing outlet, changed the focus from international and national to local, and changed the format to tabloid. I used to love that newspaper, and had a regular subscription. Now I don't look at it; it's worthless on every level.
Editors either quit, or were forced out. Right-wing columnists and pundits ruled the editorial pages. Letters favorable to Bush and the Republicans, especially those critical of those declared Bush/Republican enemies, were published with prejudice. It was all rah-rah, pro-war, and go-Bush. Now, having plundered a once-fine and once-proud newspaper (the oldest continually published newspaper in the US, going back to 1782) the Tribune Company has abandoned it.
The size of the paper has shrunk yet again. They waste their money on direct mail campaigns and advertising trying to get a disgusted public to buy it again. And their journalists have left, following their good, professional editors out the door. Right-wing ideologues plundered a good newspaper to death, and then walked away.
On the national side, our networks will stilt their stories and coverage to cater to the rich and powerful. Corporate pals and boardroom buddies are given top consideration; the "will it piss-off the owners" test is as important, at least, as any journalistic and societal value. Their charge, by the Founding Fathers, of providing good information in support of a democracy, has been foresaken. Profits are more important, not only for the media outlet, but for Corporate American in general. Our right to good journalism has been co-opted. Our democracy has been bought.
We all know this to be true. We all know the continual incessant right-wing mantra of "liberal media" to be crap. The media ought to be liberal, as journalism demands a liberal mind. That doesn't stop the right-wing from name-calling and intimidation, when none is actually called for. Corporate interests reign. Those interests take care of themselves.
I often wonder how the pretty faces on network TV news can live with themselves. I realize they are paid huge salaries, but are their souls so petty? This is for another thread, however. I guess everybody has his/her price.
- 2 votes
#14 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:11 PM ESTI didn't know these were the T-party folks, just people showing their opposition.
You are aware that just because a group congregates doesn't mean they are from
one certain group...If that would be the case, you libs better not protest anything,
you will be t-party people. That would be a hoot if your friends saw you. No one
SHOULD ever go against anything Obama want, its not allowed anymore... CHANGE,
CHANGE... Its will be stopped on here soon.
#16 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:04 PM ESTSad so many people believe that the way the Country is, is how our founding fathers wanted it swearing up & down that The Government has no right to be in Private industry but the truth is we have allowed Corporations to corrupt our Government the Government of the People for far to long, they have been allowed to drain our Economy & kill the free market.. Corporations don't want Competition or Free Markets they want to kill Competition & have killed main street. Does anyone know that there is still Federal & Local laws on the book that can be used to KILL ANY PART OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR AT GOVERNMENTS WILL?
True Americans our the ones willing to fight the Corrupt Corporate Interest & Restore Choice, Competition & Control to the People, take it back from those who have ever increasing deep Pockets.It is a shame to shame to see so many Americans fallow parties lines, when all they are about is power & money not about uniting the people.
Here is a history lesson sorry for the Length of the post but you will see that our battle against the Corporate Interest & the Corporate Government dates back Centuries & Yet I will be called every name in the book for I don't support Corporate interest, for Corporate interest holds no value to the best interest of the People.
When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation, our country's founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role. Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.
Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end.
The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these:
* Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.
* Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.
* Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.
* Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.
* Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.
* Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.
For 100 years after the American Revolution, legislators maintained tight control of the corporate chartering process. Because of widespread public opposition, early legislators granted very few corporate charters, and only after debate. Citizens governed corporations by detailing operating conditions not just in charters but also in state constitutions and state laws. Incorporated businesses were prohibited from taking any action that legislators did not specifically allow.
States also limited corporate charters to a set number of years. Unless a legislature renewed an expiring charter, the corporation was dissolved and its assets were divided among shareholders. Citizen authority clauses limited capitalization, debts, land holdings, and sometimes, even profits. They required a company's accounting books to be turned over to a legislature upon request. The power of large shareholders was limited by scaled voting, so that large and small investors had equal voting rights. Interlocking directorates were outlawed. Shareholders had the right to remove directors at will.
In 1819 the U.S. Supreme Court tried to strip states of this sovereign right by overruling a lower court's decision that allowed New Hampshire to revoke a charter granted to Dartmouth College by King George III. The Court claimed that since the charter contained no revocation clause, it could not be withdrawn. The Supreme Court's attack on state sovereignty outraged citizens. Laws were written or re-written and new state constitutional amendments passed to circumvent the Dartmouth ruling. Over several decades starting in 1844, nineteen states amended their constitutions to make corporate charters subject to alteration or revocation by their legislatures. As late as 1855 it seemed that the Supreme Court had gotten the people's message when in Dodge v. Woolsey it reaffirmed state's powers over "artificial bodies."
But the men running corporations pressed on. Contests over charter were battles to control labor, resources, community rights, and political sovereignty. More and more frequently, corporations were abusing their charters to become conglomerates and trusts. They converted the nation's resources and treasures into private fortunes, creating factory systems and company towns. Political power began flowing to absentee owners, rather than community-rooted enterprises.
The industrial age forced a nation of farmers to become wage earners, and they became fearful of unemployment--a new fear that corporations quickly learned to exploit. Company towns arose. and blacklists of labor organizers and workers who spoke up for their rights became common. When workers began to organize, industrialists and bankers hired private armies to keep them in line. They bought newspapers to paint businessmen as heroes and shape public opinion.public's resources to scrutinize every charter application and corporate operation. Corporations bought state legislators, then announced legislators were corrupt and said that they used too much
Government spending during the Civil War brought these corporations fantastic wealth. Corporate executives paid "borers" to infest Congress and state capitals, bribing elected and appointed officials alike. They pried loose an avalanche of government financial largess. During this time, legislators were persuaded to give corporations limited liability, decreased citizen authority over them, and extended durations of charters. Attempts were made to keep strong charter laws in place, but with the courts applying legal doctrines that made protection of corporations and corporate property the center of constitutional law, citizen sovereignty was undermined. As corporations grew stronger, government and the courts became easier prey. They freely reinterpreted the U.S. Constitution and transformed common law doctrines.
One of the most severe blows to citizen authority arose out of the 1886 Supreme Court case of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad. Though the court did not make a ruling on the question of "corporate personhood," thanks to misleading notes of a clerk, the decision subsequently was used as precedent to hold that a corporation was a "natural person."
From that point on, the 14th Amendment, enacted to protect rights of freed slaves, was used routinely to grant corporations constitutional "personhood." Justices have since struck down hundreds of local, state and federal laws enacted to protect people from corporate harm based on this illegitimate premise. Armed with these "rights," corporations increased control over resources, jobs, commerce, politicians, even judges and the law.
A United States Congressional committee concluded in 1941, "The principal instrument of the concentration of economic power and wealth has been the corporate charter with unlimited power...."
I can understand the fear of many from large Government, even more since our Government is a root of corruption sucking the Corporate tit just as much as the Corporate tits suck the Government tit.
Yet we have 2 Political Parties that at one point were one party, the Democratic Republican Party they broke apart to create two parties & have since used their power to make it nearly impossible for a third party to rise. Yet everyone believes one side is better then the next because the truth is they don't want us united.
Our founding fathers must be crying that we allowed a Private Central Bank control our currency & that we "LET THE BULL GO" & allowed Corporations grow out of Control especially the banks that run a monk & nearly destroyed our economy & Especially the fact that we bailed them out. Yet those on the left will blame those on the right & those on the Right will blame those on the left instead of realizing they our all one CORRUPT BODY.
When a Million People March down Washington that we want our Bailout money back, Lower Health Care Cost, Jobs, Job Security, then you will see change in American!!! A change back to the Generations of my Youth & regain what our Grandparents fought hard for. Decent Wages, Job Security & more.
- 2 votes
#17 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:56 PM ESTPerhaps if those 10,000 protesters used an unlawful behavior to have themselves arrested - than they would of had more news coverage about their actions - since most local news coverages are attracted to illegal actions made by the public instead of those responsible actions made by a group of "We the People" demonstrators.
"Independent"
- 2 votes
#19 - Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:57 AM ESTChances are if they would've broadcasted the event, they might've "lost" their "Aflac", "Blue Cross", "United Health", "Cigna", "Humana", etc, etc, etc.........sponsors....yeah...real "liberal" smoke and mirror, fluff..don't front page any viable news...media.
- 1 vote
#20 - Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:58 AM ESTNow you see how the Tea Party felt when they were ignored by every news network besides Fox News. And there were a lot more than 10,000 nation wide. If I remember right a lot of liberals on this blog where dismissing that protest. Sucks when the shoe is on the other foot doesn't it. Can we call these protesters Racist Violent Rednecks too.
- 1 vote
#21 - Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:05 AM ESTRedneckstray:
Now you see how the Tea Party felt when they were ignored by every news network besides Fox News. And there were a lot more than 10,000 nation wide. If I remember right a lot of liberals on this blog where dismissing that protest. Sucks when the shoe is on the other foot doesn't it. Can we call these protesters Racist Violent Rednecks too.
I'd imagine that the corporate sponsors of Tax Evaders of America felt a little shaky. It was beginning to look as if someone wanted to pry the corporations off the government teat.
- 1 vote
That "liberal" media isn't liberal. That's another conservative lie. The media is overwhelmingly conservative to moderate.
- 1 vote
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