Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit Killfile's column >>

KILLFILE

Home Page
Epicurean Intelligentsia
Articles Posted: 382  Links Seeded: 10284
Member Since: 2/2006  Last Seen: 5/20/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

After The Healthcare Apocalypse: Analyzing The GOP's Strategy For What's Next

Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:36 AM EDT
politics, white-house, health-care, barack-obama, republicans, united-states, democrats, republican, government, supreme-court, republican-party, virginia, health-care-reform, health-insurance, democratic-party, scotus, democratic, healthcare-reform, public-option, united-states-congress, commerce-clause, united-states-senate, ken-cuccinelli, cuccinelli
By Killfile

Image Credit: HelloSputnik via Flickr and Creative Commons

Advertise | AdChoices

The fight on Health Care Reform has been years if not decades in the making and even now, in its late stages, the GOP shows the sort of dogged determination that is typically reserved for World War II infantry dramas. Even as the Democrats close on the final votes in both the House and Senate, Republicans continue to mine Senate procedural histories looking for obscure provision which can be used to emasculate the bill, all the while attempting to rally votes in the House.

Few would say that the Democrats have Health Care reform wrapped up - there are still a lot of pitfalls and hurdles between Obama and the domestic policy prize he needs for the 2012 elections - but as the number obstacles the Democrats face dwindles, the GOP is preparing for the next phase. They are talking about what they will do should Health Care Reform pass.

Should Congress manage to deliver a bill to Obama's desk, the Republicans realistically have two ways of dealing with it: Legislatively and Judicially.


In the near-term, Republicans can attempt to repeal the measure legislatively: they could attempt to repeal it. Repealing Health Care Reform would have to wait, of course, until January of next year. That is the soonest Republicans can expect to take control of at least one House of Congress. The indispensable Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight.com projects Republican pickups in in the range of 5 Senate seats or so in the 2010 election and puts the odds of a Republican takeover of the Senate at between 5% and 10% with almost no possibility whatsoever that the GOP will pick up enough seats to constitute a filibuster-proof majority.

ElectionProjection.com suggests similar pickups in the House with Democrats likely losing 20 seats to Republicans. Twenty seats is not enough to flip the chamber, however and thus Pelosi will likely stay in control of the gavel. To turn the House Republicans would have to win another 20 seats from the Democrats beyond the 20 currently projected, a difficult, but not impossible task.

Even granting the GOP the improbable extra 20 seats necessary to take the House and the even more improbable sweep necessary to recapture the Senate, the Republican ambition of repealing Health Care Reform will still run afoul of the President Obama's veto to say nothing of the enthusiastically obstructionist Democratic Senate Minority (what goes around comes around). The sorts of majorities that would enable to the Republicans to overcome these obstacles so staggeringly improbable as to not even merit mention here.

At this point the reader may be asking, "why all the focus on 2010, surely the Republicans can attempt to rally in the 2012 and 2014 races as well?" That is certainly the case, however as time passes the GOP's ability to repeal Health Care Reform becomes less about Republican political gains and more about the success or failure of the Health Care Reform itself. Come 2012, should Health Care Reform prove itself reasonably popular, Republicans will have a difficult time assailing the program. Despite GOP claims to the contrary, a number of measures in the bill will go into effect immediately and repealing those provisions could prove politically suicidal.

Despite non-stop campaigning from both sides of the aisle, Health Care Reform has polled reasonably steady since November of last year, establishing a base-line of popularity for the measure in the neighborhood of 47%. Yet as Silver points out in another post on FiveThirtyEight, the individual provisions of the Health Care Bill poll much better than the bill as a whole. Moreover, a large percentage of American have no idea that provision they favor so strongly are part of the measure now before Congress. For example: just over half of Americans are aware that the bill contains tax credits for small businesses that provide health insurance yet Americans are a staggering 62% more likely to support a bill that includes such a measure.

Assuming everything in the Democratic bill works as advertised - which is, admittedly, a big assumption - Republicans seeking to overturn the legislation will be facing down some very popular programs and the longer they are in place, the more difficult it will be to overturn them.

Perhaps a more viable political stratagem then, is to seek to overturn the bill judicially. Doing so would require bringing suit, likely against the Federal Government, on some grounds, appealing the decision to the Supreme Court, and there receiving a ruling that declares Health Care Reform "unconstitutional." A lot of Republicans and Conservatives have made a lot of noise about the supposed unconstitutionality of the Democratic plan though few have really worked through the case law to make their accusations more substantial than mere talking points.

While the right has labeled everything from Reconciliation to "Deem and Pass" unconstitutional (despite using both tactics frequently when Republicans have held power), the strongest contender for a constitutional challenge to Health Care reform is the suggestion that Congress, despite being charged to "regulate Commerce ... among the several States," lacks the power to mandate that individuals purchase health insurance.

The interstate commerce clause has long been a favorite of those seeking to extend Congressional oversight and the Court's attitude towards such justifications has changed over the years. Most recently the Rehnquist Court took a somewhat hostile view to the use of the Commerce Clause to justify the expansion of Congressional power. The Roberts Court, while ideologically similar in makeup, is yet too young for such sweeping generalizations, however, and thus predicting the outcome of such an approach is difficult.

Which may go a long way towards explaining why Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has yet to reveal on what grounds Virginia intends to sue the Federal Government should the Health Care reform bill pass. Cuccinelli has gone on record indicating that the state will sue though the specifics of the suit - for what and why - remains up in the air. In a turn towards the bizarre, however, various commentators including MSNBC's Rachel Maddow have pointed out that Cuccinelli was caught on tape speculating on how his office might set about challenging President Obama's legitimacy as President by demanding that he produce a birth certificate.

Below the Beltway provides a helpful transcription of Cuccinelli's remarks:

Q: What can we do about Obama and the birth certificate thing?

Cooch: It will get tested in my view when someone… when he signs a law, and someone is convicted of violating it and one of their defenses will be it is not a law because someone qualified to be President didn’t sign it.

Q: Is that something you can do as Attorney General? Can you do that or something?

Cooch: Well only if there is a conflict where we are suing the federal government for a law they’ve passed. So it’s possible.

Q: Because we are talking about the possibility that he was not born in America.

Cooch: Right. But at the same time under Rule 11, Federal Rule 11, we gotta have proof of it.

Q: How can we get proof?

Cooch: Well… that’s a good question. Not one I’ve thought a lot about because it hasn’t been part of my campaign. Someone is going to have to come forward with nailed down testimony that he was born in place B, wherever that is. You know, the speculation is Kenya. And that doesn’t seem beyond the realm of possibility.

Could Health Care Reform be the "conflict" Cuccinelli is looking for? Only time will tell.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • Killfile's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: 2010 Elections, Election News, GOP Watch , Headline Discussion, Left of Center, Old viners, Open Minded, Open Source Intelligence, Political Analysis, Skeptics, US News and Views
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (36)
Killfile

Now... I'm not saying Cuccinelli will actually bring suit on the grounds that Obama isn't qualified to be President, (oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please do that Ken... ) but these things do sort of seem to line up in a very conspicuous way.

Props to my wife for pointing that possibility out to me; it literally made my whole day.

  • 21 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:39 AM EDT
BAjunkie

Could possibly be within the realm of VA's grounds for recall:

neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties when that neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of the office, or upon conviction of a drug-related misdemeanor or a misdemeanor involving a "hate crime" (§24.2-233)

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:07 PM EDT
GA GUY

I can no longer tell if anyone on the right is looking at "real" numbers anymore.

My thought process is that the right is depending upon being able to cuckold the independent middle of the nation into believing that their positions, (whatever they are), are the way to go.

I cannot for the life of me see that happening at this time.

I do see weaker democrats being vulnerable if they attempt to "phone it in" like the mis-fortunate lady from Mass.

The democrats best defense now, is to work hard on this years issue...JOBS.

  • 9 votes
#1.2 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:53 PM EDT
GA GUY

Actually,

The President should push for Legislative acceleration of the current stimulus; for jobs creation...

I would LOVE to see the Republicans trying to block that agenda!!

BTW; AGP Killfile, AGP!


  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:54 PM EDT
Reply
JoulesBeef

No other party in history has better resembled spoiled rotten babies having tantrums.

And yes i wouldnt be surprised if they brought up suit saying obama isnt president.
No matter what they do plan to sue and sue often and on everything.

IT's amazing on how hard the fascists are fighting.
You know if they really gave a @!$%# and fought this hard for the american people, the gop would be the greatest party in the history of all of man kind.

  • 13 votes
Reply#2 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT
RalphieRulzDeleted
Borncorn

The democrats have taken over the domestic auto industry, banks, mortgage companies, and now the entire health care industry, and you call republicans "fascists"?

More right wingnut revisionist history. GM bailout-Bush, TARP-Bush, AIG bailout-Bush. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good right wingnut rant.

  • 16 votes
#2.2 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:46 PM EDT
Pete520

RalphieRulz

Please explain to all of us how the senate bill and the house revisions are a takeover of the health care industry. If you can do that, then I'll address the other false points you've made.

  • 7 votes
#2.3 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT
GApeach-922415

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good right wingnut rant.

They never do! In fact, FACTS have no place in republican politics. Why do you think we have this over abundance of WMD's?!

Please explain to all of us how the senate bill and the house revisions are a takeover of the health care industry.

How is he supposed to do that, when his headers haven't come up with an answer yet? He's repeating what he was told to say!

  • 5 votes
#2.4 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:59 PM EDT
Reply
Erzulie laFlanboDeleted
Fred Sweeney

The GOP cares about being in power, period. If the Healthcare bill passes, they will spend the rest of the year up to the fall elections, spinning what the bill will do, making people afraid ( a Republican trademark for the past 30 years) especially the elderly, because the Republicans know they'll vote.

If the bill doesn't pass, they'll run on a platform of "see, they Dems had control of Congress for 4 years and did nothing "( and they'd be right) mostly because the Senate Republicans are holding up 200 some bills that already passed in the House.( That they won't say)

Get Congress back this year, the WH in 2012. That's all that matters, not the people of this country. Power.

  • 11 votes
Reply#4 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT
Lola-Ohio

Let's not forget the urgency of re-writing the Republican administration of Bush/Cheney, covering up any investigative efforts into corruption during that fiasco(if people had a clue the backroom deals that were done the Repugs might never recover) and setting up the bad economy on the Dems for political gain.

  • 1 vote
#4.1 - Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:54 AM EDT
Reply
TheJonesGirl

Amusing that the Doppleganger paired a rugby match as a related article.

  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:12 PM EDT
RalphieRulzDeleted
RalphieRulzDeleted
xcomunic8ed

What's next? After HCR goes through there will be cap and trade, immigration reform, and repealing DADT to say to NO about. LOL

    Reply#8 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT
    topgun-1006407

    If the healthcare reform bill passes...

    The GOP will undoubtedly blame every anecdotal missed diagnosis or botched surgery on Obama from now on, dig up every false claim and say "this is an example of what's wrong with Obamacare....blah, blah, blah"

    The GOP is easy to figure out, what the Dems must do is be prepared for the incessant poop-flinging that will be coming their way.

    As with all the other things progressives must try and fix; Iraq, Afghanistan, Wall Street, Unemployment, Health Care, Immigration, etc. etc. etc.

    Making a mess is easy, cleaning it up is hard...

    • 7 votes
    Reply#9 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT
    magz

    I'm part of the stupid demographic, so I'm open to folks bashing me on my noggin to remind me its all about the economy. The Prez has got balls for sure, sticking with every issue he campaigned on, minus the compromises he and his advisers have had to swallow. But let's face it, the issue is one of perception. Does the US have the money to put up for health care reform?

    Ironically, I'd have to count on the greed of Wall Street to pull the growth rate up enough to allow enough breathing space to pass the bill. Right now the free fall of 2009 has stopped and I don't see anything that could reverse that, except for the EU bailing out on Greece, or the Chinese risking social unrest and sourpuss faces in the West by keeping the yuan cheap.

    In other words, it would be a mistake to think that reform, of any sort, hinges on the weekend vote for the healthcare bill. It is made difficult only because of the blind idiocy of former Administrations. Once the American economy regains its stature (notice I'm particular about the perception of a free and transparent market with responsible regulation), the President will find it easier to silence critics.

    Nothing is over till the fat lady sings in three years.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#10 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:08 PM EDT
    DEVIL1

    I don't think the GOP strategy is on the shoulders of the birthers.No body is that stupid and could rise to the office of president.The GOP, I think,sits back lets the bill pass and collects the majorty back in both senate and house in the November elections.Then we have the lamest of ducks in the oval office.At that point for the next two years he'll be lucky to pass gas.

      Reply#11 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT
      BAjunkie

      The GOP, I think,sits back lets the bill pass and collects the majorty back in both senate and house in the November elections.

      You did read the part that detailed how this was a near impossibility, right? I mean, you have a better chance of hitting the lottery every day from now until November than the GOP has in gaining majorities in both houses.

      • 8 votes
      #11.1 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:30 PM EDT
      Killfile

      You did read the part that detailed how this was a near impossibility, right? I mean, you have a better chance of hitting the lottery every day from now until November than the GOP has in gaining majorities in both houses.

      To say nothing of the 2/3rd majorities you'd need to pass the repeal over Obama's veto.

      • 7 votes
      #11.2 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:56 PM EDT
      RalphieRulzDeleted
      Killfile

      Two thirds of the Senate is 66 Senators. The GOP would need to pick up 25 seats to get there.

      The problem is that there are 36 elections open this time around but 18 of those 36 seats are already occupied by Republicans.

      Assuming the GOP sweeps the Senatorial elections they can only pick up 18 seats in 2010.

      This isn't politics, Ralphie. This is math. It ain't gonna happen.

      • 8 votes
      #11.4 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:21 PM EDT
      Reply
      LeftInTexas

      What I do not understand is why the Democrats do not force the filibuster and make the Republicans stand on the floor of the senate on CSPAN in front of the country live. The political campaign ad clips alone would be worth the price of admission. When the Republicans threatened Bill Clinton with shutting-down the government, he called their bluff and said go ahead. With politics that makes sense, the filibuster is only effective as a threat.

      I hope the Obama administration and the Democratic congress put through energy independence legislation with a healthy dose of green jobs, green technology and better national resources profit to pay down the deficit. Marketing is everything, do not call it cap and trade call it a green economy bill instead. Shifting from a fossil fuel economy to a green economy is key issue at this point in our future.

      Besides, once the Department of Justice investigation of the secretive religious political cult the " family " on " C-Street " gets under way so many Republicans will be swept up in illegal in-kind subsidiaries [bribes] after Sen. Ensign turn federal informant it will be a joke anyway. So a few bluedog democrats like Bart Stupak get sacrificed, taking out the evangelical conservatives will be a big coo to a progressive future.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#12 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT
      Killfile

      I've said as much but the more I've thought about it the more I've doubted that position. A filibuster would be a media circus and if anyone could turn that free air time into a non-stop verbal barrage against Democrats, Obama, and Healthcare the GOP could.

      There's a real risk that it would turn every network into non-stop Republican propaganda.

      • 3 votes
      #12.1 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:58 PM EDT
      RalphieRulzDeleted
      Pete520

      RalphieRulz

      The democrats can't take a chance on the truth; hence the closed door meetings.

      Two words, Ralphie: Yellowcake Uranium

      Three-Letters, Ralphie: WMD

      Oh, yeah. When I think of republicans, I think of truth...yeah right

      • 5 votes
      #12.3 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:54 PM EDT
      Reply
      RalphieRulzDeleted
      TheyreAllCrooks

      After The Healthcare Apocalypse: Analyzing The GOP's Strategy For What's Next

      Rest assured the talking points commission of the GOP is fast at work writing up 2 versions for your comsumption...

      First, the "I told you so" version which they'll play endlessly if nothing gets better over the next couple of years.

      OR

      Second, the "GOP was behind HCR all along" version complete with every GOP member going on TV and claiming that they voted for HCR!

        Reply#14 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:38 PM EDT
        johnny angel

        I think the Publikans and Demos (too) will be forced to turn to the economy very soon. Decades of outsourcing and failed policy (Detroit)(Wall St)(Energy) have turned us into a service economy. Welcome to McDonalds!

        The serious part of this is not job-loss (mine went to China 7yrs ago;we do adapt) but that we may employ the military in search of more income (in the name of security). We founded our nation this way, and haven't stopped yet. North Americans have never lived within their means. I hope the South-Central American lifestyle is embraced more. It seems to me they smile more... on less money.

        Killfile, thanks for the question! In the meantime, I'm enjoying my very productive garden.

          Reply#15 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          Florida's Atty Gen. following VA's AG will file suit when and if the bill passes/becomes law on the grounds that it is unconstitutional.

          Im sure GOP states will all follow Idaho's lead and pass laws allowing them to sue the fed.

          blah, blah, blah, blah.

          It'll be fun to watch though.

          • 4 votes
          Reply#16 - Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:44 PM EDT
          MalamuteMan

          Killfile,

          The Roberts Court, while ideologically similar in makeup, is yet too young for such sweeping generalizations

          I am not sure what you mean by "too young"... Are you suggesting that because Roberts is a relative newbie on the court that they will be too timid to make rulings that are "sweeping"??? If so, wouldn't you say that the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission ruling was pretty darned "sweeping"???

          • 1 vote
          Reply#17 - Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:28 AM EDT
          Killfile

          Not all. I'm saying that the Court hasn't been led by Roberts long enough for us to safely make determinations as to how the Court will likely rule on interstate commerce questions before they are brought to its attention.

          The Rehnquist Court was sort of a known quantity in that regard; it was widely accepted that Rehnquist as a Chief Justice as his Court as a whole looked somewhat unfavorably upon the expansion of Congressional power under the auspices of the Commerce Clause.

          It's too early in the history of the Roberts court for historians to make such a statement about it (though the safer money is on a general hostility to towards the commerce clause)

          • 2 votes
          #17.1 - Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:44 AM EDT
          MalamuteMan

          though the safer money is on a general hostility to towards the commerce clause

          Not to mention hostility towards anything that is ideologically the slightest bit to the left.

          • 1 vote
          #17.2 - Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:56 AM EDT
          Reply
          Leave a Comment:
          You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
          You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
          (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
          Newsvine Privacy Statement
          As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
          FUN STUFF:
          • Leaderboard |
          • E-Mail Alerts |
          • Top of the Vine |
          • Newsvine Live |
          • Newsvine Archives |
          • The Greenhouse |
          COMPANY STUFF:
          • Code of Honor |
          • Company Info |
          • Contact Us |
          • Jobs |
          • User Agreement |
          • Privacy Policy |
          • About our ads
          LEGAL STUFF:
          • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
          • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
          • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com