Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit Killfile's column >>

KILLFILE

Home Page
Epicurean Intelligentsia
Articles Posted: 382  Links Seeded: 10284
Member Since: 2/2006  Last Seen: 5/20/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

They Do Not Forgive. They Do Not Forget.

Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:27 PM EDT
politics, obama, barack-obama, tea-party, facebook, anonymous, political-party, oregon-tea-party, online-organization, partyvan
By Killfile

Live Poll

Do you think we'll see "Anonymous Style" attacks on party websites incorporated into the general electoral playbook?

View Results
  • 107511
    Yes.
    79%
  • 107512
    No.
    9%
  • 107513
    No idea/no opinion/don't care
    12%

VoteTotal Votes: 110

Image Credit: Anonymous (naturally)

Advertise | AdChoices

A great deal has transpired in the world of American Political News in the course of this week and while the injunction against the Arizona immigration law is certainly fascinating, I find myself a great deal more concerned about a far less mainstream story. Earlier this week a faction of internet users known as "Anonymous" went to (virtual) war with the Oregon Tea Party. In so doing they demonstrated the significant and thus far largely untapped power of cyber-attacks in the political landscape. To really understand what happened and why it matters, however, a little background is necessary.


Sometime over the past few months the Tea Party, and more specifically the Oregon Tea Party, went shopping for a new slogan. They desired something pithy, no doubt, that was emblematic of their "every-man" persona yet still sufficiently antagonistic as to communicate the tacit threat the right-wing movement imagines it presents to the nation's political elites.

It is not clear when or why or how the selection was made or even to what extent any formal decision making process was involved. What is clear is that over the past month or so the slogan "We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us" has appeared on Tea Party websites, posters, bumper stickers, and billboards.

To natives of the digital realm, the "We are Anonymous" slogan is instantly recognizable as the virtual banner of the erstwhile virtual vigilante group whose name it declares. "Anonymous" is both a group and a meme (and neither) - perhaps the most significant and least frivolous of the ideo-linguistic children of anonymous posting communities like 4chan. Anonymous is, in essence, an angry mob with idle hands and in appropriating their moniker, the Oregon Tea Party provoked them.

Like the "Teabagging" meme that the Tea Party ran afoul of last year, the Tea Party's misstep is likely simply the result of its insular ignorance. With few deep roots in online communities, most Tea Partiers were, no doubt, wholly unaware of the significance of the "We are Anonymous" slogan. No doubt the Tea Partiers meant no offense. Then again, the second sentence of the lifted language is "We do not forgive."

Once the Tea Party's use of the slogan became public knowledge things began to move very rapidly. "Operation Teabag" launched on PartyVan and Anonymous began to gather information on the Oregon Tea Party - web addresses, Facebook group pages, membership, names, addresses, urls, and phone numbers - even the number of children that Geoffrey Ludt, the Oregon Tea Party's webmaster, has was collected, noted, and cataloged.

Then the siege began.

The struck-through links on PartyVan tell the tale better than any prose ever could. Site by site the Oregon Tea Party's presence on the internet buckled and collapsed under constant attack from both hackers - individuals trying to attack the site infrastructure itself - and griefers - individuals flooding social message boards with intentionally offensive content. Within a few hours - a day at most - the Oregon Tea Party had functionally ceased to exist on the internet.

None of that is particularly strange; it is what Anonymous does when it goes to war. What is significant is what that means to a political party. Unlike almost every other organization on line, political parties exist so as to coordinate voters, push messages, and welcome new people into the fold. By forcing the Oregon Tea Party to shut its (virtual) doors, Anonymous denied it the ability to do any of those things. For all intents and purposes, the Oregon Tea Party - at least in its on line capacity - is out of business. Given the importance of on-line organizing in the political world that is a heavy blow to the Party as a whole.

What Anonymous did it did out of a combination of anger and boredom. There was no political motive in its attack and yet almost overnight it brought a (admittedly small and regional) political party to its knees. There is no reason that these tactics would not prove equally powerful when practiced by a dedicated political opponent.

Imagine the confusion if, in early October of 2008, Candidate Obama's extensive web presence had come under siege by thousands of griefers posting racially and sexually offensive content while others infiltrated forums and discussion boards to sew seeds of outrage and discontent. Imagine the virtual equivalent of a thousand Ashley Todds systematically confusing and corrupting the internal communications among Obama's volunteers and supporters in the crucial final month before the Presidential election.

Imagine that and then ask, what political organization - so dependent upon volunteer efforts - could survive such an assault?

With that thought in mind, consider the last message posted on the Oregon Tea Party's Facebook page before it was finally shut down:

Anonymous: We appreciate your resource and admire your tactics. You have taught us more than you know. As you requested, we are no longer using the "anonymous" quote.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • Killfile's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: 2010 Elections, Activism, Election News, GeekVine, Hate Watch, Headline Discussion, Left of Center, Media Watch, Odd News, Old viners, Open Minded, Political Analysis, Science And Technology, Skeptics, Tea Party Watch, US News and Views
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (61)
Killfile

Note that there's some disagreement as to whether or not Anonymous constitutes a true vigilante group. Strictly speaking, Anonymous just does whatever the hell it feels like. Often times that means that it is participating in acts of internet vigilantism but other times it just means that it's harassing some self-important high-school kids.

  • 11 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:32 PM EDT
SansSerif

They're internet super heroes and hackers on steroids.
And color me impressed. I thought they had their last hurra with project chanology. This is...well...epic. Remember though they don't do this for good or ill. Just for the lulz.

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:18 PM EDT
D Luniz-1282741

ya, they get bored quickly
Scientalogy didnt whine or fuss, so there was no entertainment factor

considering the Tea Party seems to be mostly whine and fuss...

This wont end fast, but when it does end, it will be ugly

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:08 PM EDT
UnAmericanLiberal

Their website claims they protest the Cult of Scientology, I actually could not see anything about the teabaggers on the website.

It's a well known fact that the Cult of Scientology sues anyone that criticizes them in an attempt to financially ruin them. Their abuse of the judicial system is apparent to anyone.

It'd make sense that a group protesting them would be anonymous actually.

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:26 AM EDT
LordFluffy

It'd make sense that a group protesting them would be anonymous actually.

They were anonymous prior to protesting the CoS. It is, however, one reason why they've been able to do so for so long. There's no head to cut off.

  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:20 PM EDT
anonymous-1077600

Thanks killfile I had not heard of this group.

  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:15 PM EDT
Reply
Scarlet Termite

I'd say the major political parties are already doing this. On forum I frequent was inundated with griefers just before the Presidential election. Most of the regular posters just took some time off until things cooled down.
Indeed, I can see the Republicans doing this, aided by their media ally, Fox News.

  • 7 votes
Reply#2 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:05 PM EDT
Partisan Hack

Interesting take, Kill. While I would not support organized griefing as a tactic, it sounds as if this was a truly grass roots response to the Oregon Tea Party. Their slogan is truly disturbing.

I am noting one of the profiles on the Tea Party Patriots site to which you link features a five-point star ornament that I am seeing displayed fairly frequently on homes in our area. I thought it just a coincidence of decoration for a long time, but I am thinking increasingly that it's an "anonymous" sign for the neo-nazi Tea Party movement, similar to their use of the Gadsden flag as a subversive alternative to the Confederate battle flag. I hope that this nonsense sticks to the Republicans like chewing gum from a subway station platform.

  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:08 PM EDT
mstanley2265

oh, the Joys of the Internet..better have a Tyler on hand is all I can say...

  • 3 votes
Reply#4 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:31 PM EDT
oldfogey

As is becoming more and more apparent what with attacks such as you describe, with the release of classified government documents and the Facebook Users Directory which has become visible, I would say it is long past time to do away with anonymity on the Internet. Some will never learn. The Internet will never be a reliable communications source until it becomes transparent and addressable. Read. I keep harping on this and some may point out that the Internet already has those two attributes. Yes, it does, now let's admit it, embrace it, and go on with the world.

  • 5 votes
Reply#5 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:32 PM EDT
Dennis270

I would say it is long past time to do away with anonymity on the Internet

Would never work. Just as the 2nd Amend. people use (and I agree with) the line "If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them", same thing goes here. There are those (myself not among them) that are savvy enough and smart enough to remain anonymous if they so desire, even if there were a way to enforce transparency. If we got to that point, the only ones remaining anonymous would be those who were doing so for nefarious purposes. And if that's the case, what is the point?

  • 5 votes
#5.1 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:26 PM EDT
oldfogey

Why won't it work? You know something no one else knows? I am not for outlawing anything. I am for making everything legal. Whether you want to believe it or not your vitals are already known on the Internet. Ever notice how you search for something and then ads keeping popping up for that very item?

You have to have a name and address to get your US Postal mail. You have to have a name, address and account to have a phone of any kind. The only people who gain from keeping you thinking you are anonymous are those who would use your own information to guide, sell or lead you down some path they want you to take. If you live in this world you have a name, you have a place of residence, you have court records that describe your birth, much of your life and eventually your death certificate.

  • 2 votes
#5.2 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:30 PM EDT
Dennis270

Because, as I stated, there are those smart enough to keep themselves "off the grid", so to speak. If we require full disclosure of identity on the 'net, all of us good little law abiders will do so. The ones who have ulterior motive will find a way to keep themselves anonymous. Not all of the smart people work for the good guys, unfortunately. I don't know something no one else does, but there are those who do.

Ok, now I'm just starting to sound all "Grassy Knoll", and that wasn't my intent.

  • 2 votes
#5.3 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:36 PM EDT
BAjunkie

The ones who have ulterior motive will find a way to keep themselves anonymous.

Exactly. What I'd do is wardrive around a neighborhood on the other side of my town until I found a suitable wireless network, use a packet sniffer to intercept data being transmitted and grab your network key, log on to your network, open firefox with foxyproxy enabled and connect to a proxy network, then make sure betterprivacy deleted my lso's after I finished doing whatever it is I wanted to do. I am anonymous.

  • 3 votes
#5.4 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:51 PM EDT
Dennis270

Yeah, see, people like him :-)

  • 1 vote
#5.5 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:02 PM EDT
Killfile

The thing is it's all absurdly easy. The only hard part of what BAJunkie described is snagging one of the wireless cards that plays nice with that particular trick.

And it's not like those are hard to find and use.

And all that supposes that people lock their networks down. For the most part they don't. You don't need to break anyone's security; you just have to look for a network named "linksys" and you're good to go.

  • 3 votes
#5.6 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:34 PM EDT
BAjunkie

And all that supposes that people lock their networks down. For the most part they don't.

Further, even if they did protect their network, most of the time they think that their router is then protected too. It isn't. All I would have to do is try out the default password to log on to the router, then change your network key. Ba da boom, ba da bing, I'm in.

  • 3 votes
#5.7 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:16 AM EDT
anonymous-1077600

Oldfogey, I am anonymous, but not that anonymous, I also am a law abiding citizen and post and write articles. There are many reasons for people who want to be anonymous to have this title. I like Newsvine because people here are intelligent and have fun and because it is a monitored and regulated site with a code of honor.

  • 1 vote
#5.8 - Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:23 PM EDT
Reply
Texasguy01

Anonymous is most famous for their war on Scientology. They are a loose association of hackers who are mostly pranksters. They also took credit for the infamous Obama Joker Socialist poster. This is actually being turned in to a military weapon in various countries.

  • 4 votes
Reply#6 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:52 PM EDT
Student of Life

Umm Texasguy,

Anonymous DDOS'ed AT&T so voraciously for banning their site that it crashed not even their web and email servers, they actually crashed their DNS servers as well - for 3 days anyone with an AT&T account was persona-non-grata on the internet. AT&T had to beg 4chan to stop the attack.

Just because Anonymous doesn't march in step at almost any point in time, it is DEFINITELY a BAD idea to underestimate what they're capable of.

  • 4 votes
#6.1 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:20 PM EDT
charnello

I thought this guy was responsible for the Obama Socialist Joker poster?

Thanks for the article. I had no idea.

  • 3 votes
#6.2 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:01 PM EDT
Reply
Partisan Hack

Saw some interesting research. Most people prefer to develop avatars for themselves in Second Life that represent their real-world attributes. Most people want to live by their real-world reputation and use social media to build it. Anonymity is a tool that is useful in journalism, but it comes at a price. On Newsvine and other social media services, the price paid is far too low. There's little if any discrimination between the views expressed by non-anonymous figures and publicly exposed figures. This is true generally of most blog commenting systems, also - an ID is not a person, just a piece of data. But I do think that the Web is going to help us discriminate between these types of contributions more effectively.

  • 1 vote
Reply#7 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:04 PM EDT
T Bourlon

Wow, Killfile, I am impressed at your impartiality. I know you truly dislike the Tea Party, but of course they have the right to express their views. I've also never heard of "anonymous" before this, good info. Sounds like they are the cyber equivalent of people in an audience who heckle and shout down a speaker, and disrupt a speaking event. I was just reading about some Arizona protesters blocking traffic and getting themselves arrested. I've always been opposed to that kind of tactic - a little too "Westboro" for me. I don't even picket abortion clinics.

I answered your question "Yes" before I even read this article, though, because Internet rumors have already been effectively used in campaigns. I've read the original "Obama is a muslim" email (something I never believed, btw), and I always believed some of Hillary's staffers helped that one along. And Palin's emails being leaked, etc. etc. etc. I would fully expect more of the same in the future, and yes it can DEFINITELY hamper a candidate's campaign and fund-raising.

  • 3 votes
Reply#8 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT
Killfile

Thanks.

I know I'm not always impartial (though I try to be in my analysis) but my belief is that if you make your readership abundantly aware of your bias then they can decide for themselves what to trust.

Bias is part of media; they can't be separated and I don't think it's entirely reasonable to expect pundits and analysts to act as if they have no opinion on a subject.

I'd have a lot less of a beef with Fox News, for example, if they'd just replace their "fair and balanced" slogan with "wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican Party."

  • 11 votes
#8.1 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:01 PM EDT
vanessa82

Are these kids the "Anon" of 4chan?

  • 2 votes
#8.2 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:26 PM EDT
Killfile

Exactly.

  • 3 votes
#8.3 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:15 AM EDT
Reply
Wheel

Anonymous has been around for a while. Here's an little about that. They have a long standing feud with the cult of Scientology.

  • 6 votes
Reply#9 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:16 PM EDT
Edward-453134

They Do Not Forgive. They Do Not Forget.

Don't get mad, get even. The people wil be paying dearly if the Republican party regains the majority. I've viewed this video on You Tube: "Republican Tea Party Contract on America" it's a political ad taken out by the DNC. They may not be just a separate party, but a mixture of both combined. Tea Partiers, and the Republicans as one party. It's dangerous for the people. Every man, woman and child would be hurt, the elderly would be hurt.

Being afraid, being scared, no, neither should the people. There is still time. We have yet to see the air waves flooded with political ads. With the internet, it's far easier to get the necessary information we need, especially if the candidate in question has a web site, with his voting record.

  • 1 vote
Reply#10 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:30 PM EDT
Simplistic Reality

Interesting article.. and interesting Oregon Tea Party being mentioned. I went to one of the their Tea Party events in downtown Portland during the election to see what was up. Was civil, no ugly signs, no racism, not rowdiness like many love to claim. As for the "anonymous" thing.. gonna have to read up more on that. First I have heard of all this.

  • 7 votes
Reply#11 - Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:57 PM EDT
cappiez

Well, to start off with, they made a huge mistake in messing with 4chan. Internet rule #1 is don't mess with 4chan. Stealing their slogan, which was held very closely by many, is a small (or big) enough reason to attack. It doesn't take much for 4chan to backlash. It rarely takes any reason whatsoever.

I don't think it'll become a larger part of elections. To me, this was simply a retaliation. It had nothing to do with the Tea Party's core message. Just the message that they took. Which, hell, that didn't even personalize whatsoever. So, that doesn't give them points in my book. My bet, though, is that the person who introduced it, lurks on 4chan/WhyWeProtest. Just from the posts on this article, it seems like most people have no idea who/what Anonymous is. So, my guess would be that some random person saw it on a Google search and went "Hey, that sounds cool."

  • 2 votes
Reply#12 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:17 AM EDT
merleliz

Thanks for the article, Killfile...I had never heard of Anonymous before.

Seems a very effective strategy for closing down a website, though...hope no one gets any ideas from this...or that your article doesn't piss them off...but just in case it does, I'll miss you guys, it's been fun being here on the Vine! :)

  • 1 vote
Reply#13 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:38 PM EDT
Killfile

Far be it from me to speak for Anonymous but I doubt they'll be terribly upset with what I wrote here.

  • 2 votes
#13.1 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:57 PM EDT
SansSerif

I think we're safe I've had this theory for a while that newsvine is where /b/tards go when they grow up and want an actual debate.

  • 3 votes
#13.2 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:35 PM EDT
Reply
Michael Serota

Todays so called 'teaparters' many claim to be Christian evan though they only honor God with their lips not with their hearts and they worship God in vain as Jesus said teaching not God's doctrines but their own evil man-made doctrines, they claim to be Christian, well God gave life to those on Earth, not only those in America, and true Christians must recognize this, but right-wingers are Not True Christians; many they persucute, are.

    Reply#14 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:53 PM EDT
    BroJo

    Killfile, I doubt any of the folks I met at the Tax Day Tea Party gathering will be "brought to their knees" by the efforts of the despoilers, unless it's to pray. I am an American, an individual, who believes in the vision of our Founders, and other than in their motto, E Pluribus Unum, I'm not much of a joiner. If it weren't for the Goebbels-esque deflections and distractions offered up daily by the mainstream media; and the ridicule, demonization and marginalization (alaAlinsky) heaped upon anyone representing any point of view outside the O'Orthodoxy; any 5th grader could see through the charade, if facts and history trumped how we FEEL about How We Wish Things Were. I am of a different faith. I laugh in the face of Alinsky's patron saint, Lucifer. He really did dedicate Rules For Radicals to him. Isn't that cute? In the Utopian Collective, be careful who you hate. Not that hatred's a bad thing, just be sure you pick the right target. After all, SumBuddy might be watching you. I'm not IN the militia, I AM the Militia. Individually yours (Don't tell Che.), BroJo

    • 3 votes
    Reply#15 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:13 PM EDT
    mork1from1ork

    I think that the People of the Tea Party are NOT going to "vanish".

    They were attacked; but they will NOT be surprised by the insidious, "ANONYMOUS", again.

    • 2 votes
    #15.1 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:36 AM EDT
    LordFluffy

    They were attacked; but they will NOT be surprised by the insidious, "ANONYMOUS", again.

    *hehehehehehehehehehehehe*

    Anonymous might get bored and go away. They might burn the whole metaphorical house to the ground. But don't every think they won't surprise you.

    • 1 vote
    #15.2 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:21 PM EDT
    Reply
    Jeanett

    Killfile, the article was thought provoking. I wasn't aware of the depth and measures taken in the "internet battles and digital war zone". Thanks for the information. It's now up to the readers such as I to explore and expand our understanding of what you have shared.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#16 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:11 PM EDT
    Student of Life

    If you're looking for decent read on the war waged in the internet realm , I recommend Fatal System Error by Joseph Menn. It talks a lot about how effective internet attacks truly are and moreso how near impossible they are to defeat.

    For the average person, your only real chance is hoping someone comes around who pisses them off more than you do.

    • 1 vote
    #16.1 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:26 PM EDT
    Reply
    BabylonD

    Don't intellectualize "Anonymous" too much as some sort of movement of the interwebs that needs to be dissected and understood. It's done for the lolz and when there's not much else to do. Anytime you've wanted to mock/laugh/haze/berate someone for their stupidity; that's being Anonymous. The internets just lets you do the mocking right then and in technicolor gifs.

    • 1 vote
    #17 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:54 PM EDT
    Student of Life

    Babylon, Anonymous rendered an entire global network provider inert for over 36 hours. The largest one in the world in fact. They killed not only their web and email servers, they killed their DNS and DHCP servers as well. And that's just because AT&T decided to ban users from their site.

    They are the true definition of chaos. They don't always agree (okay, they never agree) but they will defend the "rules of the internet" with every capability they have.

    The funniest thing? None of it's illegal.

    • 2 votes
    #17.1 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:52 PM EDT
    BabylonD

    lol I know a lot of things anons have done that doesn't change the purpose of my post: don't intellectualize it, don't be stupid, anybody can do it.

    You've repeated the AT&T episode twice. Has anybody mentioned the internet pedo-bear of Toronto that got nabbed cause of anon's? Faux News? Cause while the original article was interesting, there's tinhats creeping around in the comments. :D

    • 2 votes
    #17.2 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:32 PM EDT
    Killfile

    lol I know a lot of things anons have done that doesn't change the purpose of my post: don't intellectualize it, don't be stupid, anybody can do it.

    I think you misunderstand my point.

    This article serves to do two things: explain the Anonymous raid on the Oregon Tea Party and discuss the application of Anonymous' tactics in a broader sense.

    Yes, Anonymous acts for the lulz* but what amuses them may prove to have real utility to a less impulsive organization. While Anonymous might think shutting down the Tea Party's online capabilities is hilarious, someone else might see real political advantage in doing the same thing. Attacks - particularly social attacks like the ones that forced the Oregon Tea Party to take down their Facebook page, are legal and easily accomplished by, as you point out, "anybody."

    What really interests me is the extent to which Anonymous' antics and - more sepcifically - its tactics can be translated into a political weapon in this age of online politics.

    * Lulz is a corruption of LOLs, itself the plural of LOL - "Laughing Out Loud." Lulz is thus sort of an internet-slang term for "schadenfreude/amusement/vicarious glee/the hell of it."

    • 3 votes
    #17.3 - Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:34 PM EDT
    SansSerif

    What really interests me is the extent to which Anonymous' antics and - more sepcifically - its tactics can be translated into a political weapon in this age of online politics.

    Okay. I see where you're train of thought is going with this now. Yeah I could see this "anon" attack behavior being adopted by political groups. Like for instance (PURELY HYPOTHETICAL) the teaparty DDoSing Obamas 2012 re-election campaign site. However if it happens often enough it Will Be legislated and anyone wh can be found to be blamed will be. because these attacks will be traceable to the different "brands" of Anonymous that spring up.
    Groups like the teaparty don understand Anonymous and their "not your personal army" philosophy. They only agenda they really have is if some one pokes them with a stick. Another group (like the Tea party) could not use Anonymous for cover simply because any of their targets would not fit Anons agenda. The targets would fit the tea partys agenda (or other political groups agenda) and would therefore expose themselves. Terefore making it not Anonymous. Agenda=an identity.
    Tl;dr they need to lurk moar

    • 1 vote
    #17.4 - Sun Aug 1, 2010 12:46 AM EDT
    Student of Life

    The other thing - by and large 4Chan's members are international, many of which don't adhere to our...laws. Some are, by most are foreign citizens.

    What happened to the Tea Party was cause and effect - they violated Anon's rules of the internet. It had little to do with politics or ideology. Though admittingly the Tea Party is regarded about as highly as the WBC to them.

    They were defending their copyright in the best way they know how.

    Contrast that with using computers in America to launch such an attack? You'll have the FBI all over you before you can blink...

    • 1 vote
    #17.5 - Sun Aug 1, 2010 1:35 AM EDT
    Killfile

    ike for instance (PURELY HYPOTHETICAL) the teaparty DDoSing Obamas 2012 re-election campaign site.

    No, I think you're still missing the point. DDOSing a site -- Distributed Denial of Service -- is hard. It requires a lot of bandwidth to pull of a highly targeted attack against key components of a target's network infrastructure -- typically Domain Name Servers or key aspects of a network.

    By comparison, what Anonymous has done -- let's call it a Social Denial of Service (SDOS) attack -- targets neither the physical or virtual infrastructure but rather the social community that thrives upon that infrastructure. No amount of additional server capacity and bandwidth can combat that. Flood a message board consistently and repetitiously with inane and offensive noise and everyone will go elsewhere. By rendering the area toxic to social discourse you effectively deny it to everyone.

    And therein lies the problem. SDOS attacks are a lot like an oil spill. It takes a hell of a lot less effort to render a social network or a stretch of Louisiana coastline uninhabitable than it does to police it and scrub it clean of contamination.

    Given that, a small amount of money spent on SDOS attacks can cost a political opponent a great deal more money to prevent.... and that makes it a smart (if unscrupulous) move.

    • 3 votes
    #17.6 - Sun Aug 1, 2010 10:03 PM EDT
    SansSerif

    Okay so a SDoS is similar to a massive forum raid?
    I ma have used the wrong terminology. But I think the rest of what I was saying stands. We know the type of targets anon picks (not that there's a "type" but a vague reasoning)
    Anon type mob behavior doesn't work when you have a clear parent organization with a specific agenda and your attacks fit that You stop being anon pretty damn fast.

    • 1 vote
    #17.7 - Mon Aug 2, 2010 7:16 AM EDT
    Killfile

    Anon type mob behavior doesn't work when you have a clear parent organization with a specific agenda and your attacks fit that You stop being anon pretty damn fast.

    Not at all. You're anonymous as long as you choose to be. The ties that link any individual poster back to the reasons that they post what they do need not be verbosely stated anywhere on line. Hand poster X $100 in cash and off they go to wreak havoc. As long as they are geographically dispersed, what's to meaningfully separate them from people who took it upon themselves to do the same thing?

    • 2 votes
    #17.8 - Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:22 AM EDT
    LordFluffy

    As long as they are geographically dispersed, what's to meaningfully separate them from people who took it upon themselves to do the same thing?

    SansSerif does have a point.

    When Anon went after the Church of Scientology, the CoS responded like they usually do; they looked for the head to sue the living crap out of them and thus cut the head off the snake. But they got to Anon, found they had no head (true to their logo) and were dumfounded to this day.

    If there is any central agency dolling out the cash, then they would need to be meticulous in their obfuscation, because all it takes is one guy who admits "I got paid to do this" and suddenly the D/RNC gets a massive lawsuit from the other side.

    Chaos is hard to fake.

    • 2 votes
    #17.9 - Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:36 AM EDT
    Killfile

    But CoS was trying to worry about copyright infringement. Simply overwhelming - say - MyBarackObama.com with rightwing screeds and posts from AmericanThinker isn't illegal.

    Yes, there would be more a more obvious target to sue... but on what grounds?

    • 2 votes
    #17.10 - Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:49 AM EDT
    LordFluffy

    Actually, the CoS found any reason to sue they could; trespassing, harassment, assault... anything they could think of that could in any way be supported. We live in the land of the lawsuit.

    Defamation of character, slander, even Extreme Emotional Distress could be added to a dollar amount, provided there's a central organization to direct the lawsuit towards.

    • 1 vote
    #17.11 - Mon Aug 2, 2010 10:08 AM EDT
    SansSerif

    Then we could start arguing the nature of anonymous. There's individual level anonymity like we would use here or on a site like 4chan. Trackable but on a grand scale would be like trying to prosicute the millions of John does in the file sharing cases.
    Now anonymity on an organization level is different. How anonymous is Anonymous the group Outside of their name? They have slogans we are here having a discussion of their tactics. Many know where they gather on the Internet. Anyone could easly join Howerver they have no organizing body. No plan. No hierarchy. No one to sue as a group. (I think ther have been attempts to go after moot in the past. Hence his attempts to shut down ant raid activities on the image boards. If yo pay attention most anon raids are organized in irc chats).
    You're saying a political group could pay some kids $100 bucks to go cause anon style trouble and still have the political group remain anonymous. I'm saying that even that is too organized to remain anonymous.

      #17.12 - Mon Aug 2, 2010 10:20 AM EDT
      SansSerif

      . Simply overwhelming - say - MyBarackObama.com with rightwing screeds and posts from AmericanThinker isn't illegal

      It's not illegal...yet.
      The law is still in it's infancy when it comes to the Internet.

        #17.13 - Mon Aug 2, 2010 10:24 AM EDT
        BabylonD

        In regards to comments on Anonymous being an organization, having a gathering place that can be found, a recognizable sigil and slogan...Anonymous works in the same way that a flock of birds does. You know it's a flock of birds because they're all traveling in the same direction, but you will see birds fly away from the flock, you'll see birds join the flock. Some will fly off and not return while others do return. Taking out Anonymous by any organization is like killing flocks of birds; you'll nail some, the slow and stupid(who should be nailed anyways lols) but you wont get all the blighters. And, pls, don't presume that simply because some Anonymous began in 4chan, means that is were it originates for the raids. Far from the truth.

        Anon raids work because it's Mob Rule. These buggers have mob rule down to a digital ar tform and as with all mob rule, it will work when given leeway. A majority of the time we hear of mob rule in a negative light. Anon has done both good and bad things, but there is a division in Anonymous. There is one part that is the bored 15 year olds looking for something to do and there is the other part that is filled with every day people of all walks of life. The 15 year olds are the ones Faux news talks about. The others are the ones who take on Iran, Australia, Co$...Some one mentioned that the first rule of the internet is to not anger Anonymous, and that rule stands for the 15 year olds. The other rule of the internet for everybody is "Information is Free." You act like Iran, like China, like Australia, like Co$, and try to deny human beings information and you'll get Anonymous attention. In this form, the Mob Rule of Anonymous is positive. Or I've just had too much to drink and am blithering again. ;)

        • 2 votes
        #17.14 - Wed Aug 4, 2010 12:33 AM EDT
        SansSerif

        This is completely true. I guess you could call it all more "branding" or "tagging" (if you're going with the flock of birds reference) than an actual orginisation. Still you Identify most as belonging to a specificic family of Anonymous. But theres the branch that goes after CO$ and the branch that goes after jessi slaughter.
        And haha yeah, you know a raid is serious when you Can't find it on 4chan.

        • 2 votes
        #17.15 - Wed Aug 4, 2010 8:27 AM EDT
        Killfile

        And, pls, don't presume that simply because some Anonymous began in 4chan, means that is were it originates for the raids. Far from the truth.

        I tried really hard to avoid that implication in the article. To be honest, writing about Anonymous is rather difficult because of exactly the sort of anti-organization you talk about; there is no verifiable truth and it is impossible to say with any certainty who, if anyone, speaks in any practical (to say nothing of formal) sense for the group.

        • 2 votes
        #17.16 - Wed Aug 4, 2010 9:16 AM EDT
        BabylonD

        Oops, didn't mean to insinuate that you, Killfile, had said that. I beleive it was another commenter who blanket painted Anon as from 4chan, and I just wanted to clarify that was a false assumption with out pointing and going "Ur doin Wrong!" ;).

        :) I do realize writing about Anonymous is difficult, if not impossible, if you don't have first hand experiance. Nobody, in any practical sense, speaks for the group because it is a mob. The mob goes where it wants, and sometimes some bugger jumps on top of the digital Soap Box and says, "You know what? Lets go here and do this cause those blighters are doing something against what I beleive is right/cause it'd be lolworthy." And so some of the mob goes that with that bugger, sometimes a large portion, sometimes a small portion, and sometimes one of them will say "Anonymous was here." and sometimes they wont.

        Anonymous, if you placed them within the physical world of roads and cars, would be no more than bunch of people who are indistinguishable because they've "masked" themselves who went as they pleased, did as they pleased, and because of their numbers tromping through streets and because they all look the same, cannot be stopped. One way to think of anonymous, to be understood, is like the LA Riots of the 90's. We all know the Cause, but who was the exact person who said "Get Some!"? And even then, who started it doesn't matter, it was the consequences that does matter. Anonymous is no more than that, but digitally, and people tend to get all confuzzeled about that just because the rioting takes place online. And the justice system, the "authority" figures have no idea how to cope with a digital riot where they can't use tear gas, water hoses, bean bag guns...lols It's going to be a very bad day when those in authority try to develop this control mechansims for the digital world (they'll irritate both "sides" of Anonymous and it's never pleasant when both sides march).

        I've never agreed with all the things done in Anonymous name, but that's part of the price one pays when the digital pitbull is beaten a tad too much and not given enough lolcats. The mailman some times gets bit. ;)

        • 1 vote
        #17.17 - Wed Aug 4, 2010 12:34 PM EDT
        Reply
        indecent

        I know I'm not around much at all any more, but I had seen the argument with Oregon's Tea Party erupt on facebook and went searching for more information. I shouldn't have been surprised when #1 on google was the loveable Killfile covering the story. Great job. It almost makes me miss newsvine :)

        • 1 vote
        Reply#18 - Tue Aug 3, 2010 9:24 AM EDT
        Courts

        We certainly miss you. Hope all is well!

        • 1 vote
        #18.1 - Tue Aug 3, 2010 9:31 AM EDT
        Reply
        Steve Rosenberger

        Strange new world we're living in...

        • 1 vote
        Reply#19 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:29 PM EDT
        Geekhillbilly

        It's not very smart to piss off a group of hackers/computer users.You'll get nailed so fast that its scary.But the rightwingnuts are not known for critical thinking either.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#20 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 6:06 PM EDT
        Leave a Comment:
        You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
        You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
        (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
        Newsvine Privacy Statement
        As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
        FUN STUFF:
        • Leaderboard |
        • E-Mail Alerts |
        • Top of the Vine |
        • Newsvine Live |
        • Newsvine Archives |
        • The Greenhouse |
        COMPANY STUFF:
        • Code of Honor |
        • Company Info |
        • Contact Us |
        • Jobs |
        • User Agreement |
        • Privacy Policy |
        • About our ads
        LEGAL STUFF:
        • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
        • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
        • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com